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Author Topic: Roulette: WHY?  (Read 2769 times)

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Roulette: WHY?
« on: September 10, 2019, 11:35:15 AM »

Roulette: WHY?
Why do players lose and give up on roulette when playing a well-tested system or method?
There have been many discussions on this topic over the history of the forum that include player evolution but seriously what I have seen lacking is real honestly, not always but players are reluctant to put it all out there and give the real reasons for their failures.
Giajjenno asked a beautiful question, “Why after testing and winning for thousands of spins do I lose the moment I play with real money?”.
I look at Palestis Single Dozen System and how it has evolved into a winning method through selective play. Palestis has analysed his play and worked on selecting the best moment to start play. His system is a great system/method for anyone wanting to establish a roulette business. I use it in my approach to the game and yes, I have experienced losses but I know that by the end of a session I will be up, showing a profit.
The biggest mind freeze moment for players is caused by panic over the fear of losing out by not playing every spin. It is the gambler in the person that rules supreme when at the table. The need to place a bet overshadows any actions prescribed by parameters set out during the test phase of a method/system.
Greek talks about approaching roulette as a business and I agree with him as my approach is the same. Can you as a player work with money? I mean, in your private life, how do you fair with working with money or do you leave it up to your spouse to manage the household budget? What you do in a casino is a reflection of what you do in your private life. Another example is having a few drinks with the buddies down at the local pub. Do you only have one or two beers then leave or do you stagger out at closing time? Are you able to control the urge to have one more and then one for the road? This all comes down to discipline and we have discussed this in great detail as well. Are you happy with small session wins that if saved will grow your roulette business into whatever you desire it to be? Thinking and preparing yourself to take on the responsibility of a roulette business is a mammoth task and being prepared is paramount to success.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 11:38:09 AM by MickyP »
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Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #1 on: September 13, 2019, 07:34:18 AM »
Why!! Why!!! Why!!! ??????????????....??????...???????????.....?
   Funny , isn't it? First one ignores everything about the game, then he asks himself about nature of consequences.  Instead of addressing particular roulette device and making homework, one goes home and beat excel or any other rng.
  Roulette does not known excel and do not follow rng. Ball has no idea about your " systems or methods".
   Makes me remember old joke about a drunk guy who lost things somewhere in the dark and search for them under the light , cos it's more visible there...


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2019, 10:12:12 AM »
Lol... MrPerfect, I used the word "Why" as a direction indicator. The player should look to answering the question of their failures by looking at themselves first and foremost. Once they are secure in the fact that they can manage playing roulette as a business then the battle is so to say won already.

We all know roulette is a negative expectation game. This thread is not about "how to beat roulette"; you have mentioned that in 300 years there has not been a sure way to consistently beat the game. I agree that systems will fail at some point. This all depends on the application of the system or method. If you play till you lose then expect to lose but if you play to realize a small gain then you will achieve that as well.

Making profits from roulette is not the same as beating roulette. Players make profits every day. How they go about controlling how much profit they make and what they must do to ensure profits is all tied up in the design of their business. There are many different facets to a roulette business and not just a system or method.

I hope you can follow what I'm saying here.


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2019, 10:28:03 AM »
I agree that systems will fail at some point. This all depends on the application of the system or method. If you play till you lose then expect to lose but if you play to realize a small gain then you will achieve that as well.
Micky, the basic contradiction, which is repeated over and over again is that on the one hand you admit that all systems fail but on the other you insist that if you play for a "small gain" you can win. You cannot play a system over and over again, no matter how small the gain, without coming up against the fact that "all systems fail". You can't have it both ways without flying in the face of basic logic. One of your statements must be false and no fancy word salad will get around it.

Making profits from roulette is not the same as beating roulette.
How are they different?  ???
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 10:37:18 AM by Joe »
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Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2019, 11:33:34 AM »
Joe, the contradiction you speak of is lab based. The continuous testing of any system will result in failure but that is in the lab or testing environment with millions of spins tested till the collapse of the system. Reality is far from testing to determine when and how a system will fail.

If you play/test Palestis Single Dozen System in its original form you will find that it fails in the long run but testing revealed the maximum number of back to back losses as a norm to play a safer game with an acceptable bankroll to match. Using B2B losses as a trigger to start play reduces the risk considerably. These small adjustments add longevity to a system that will result in fewer outright losses and if played correctly will develop into wins that can easily cover the loss of a freak negative game.

Each system or method has set parameters to assist the player in not "overplaying" and losing an entire bankroll. Many add-on's to systems are not considered in testing.

"Making profit from roulette is not the same as beating roulette": To beat roulette is to have a HG that wins no matter what numbers land. We all know that a normal system is not capable of winning continuously but the development of systems is hinged on this fact.
Making a profit from roulette is easy, especially if the profit aimed for is a small gain. A player can profit from roulette through his approach to the game and by sticking to his own parameters. Many players fail here because they give in to the gambler within themselves. Making a profit does not mean you have beaten the game indefinitely. Beating roulette has a permanence to it whereas making a profit has limitations like sessions or mini-games or even a day worth of play.


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #5 on: September 13, 2019, 02:35:39 PM »
The reason for losses with a system is due to the fact that every way to pick bet or money management works well till a level only. Nobody makes a system considering the wider probabilities but rather with an expectation that " bad stretches" are not so likely, till he plays.
If someone is playing an eight step martingale with a belief that since he will play only 100 spins he should not get 8 successive losses till he plays, he has no understanding of how randomness could easily sweep him off his feet within first 20 spins as well.
A system that loses huge in little bad time, is no system, in my humble opinion.
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Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #6 on: September 13, 2019, 07:46:31 PM »
Micky, if you want to tolk business,  show me you business plan. Otherwise do not bother.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2019, 08:23:08 PM by kav »


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #7 on: September 13, 2019, 10:17:09 PM »
I raised a point of discussion with this thread but I don't see a discussion taking place.

You say I must show you my business plan otherwise I mustn't bother. Well it's your lucky day because I'm in a couldn't give a F##K mood so I WILL NOT bother with this thread any longer. I have a no share attitude with regard to my intellectual property

I have mentioned some ideas around my business plan in a number of threads on this forum but I have since adopted a no share attitude much like yourself MrPerfect.


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #8 on: September 13, 2019, 11:33:46 PM »
 ;D ;D I think Micky P is quite often in a " couldn't give a F##k mood"   :D
I can say that knowing that he won't reply because he WILL NOT bother with this thread any longer !  ;D


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2019, 09:13:55 AM »
Mickey,  do not share or do not give a f*** is one thing... treating roulette is business is other.
   What l did with all my students in the past and what l do with my team members now is exactly that - l provide business plan to play roulette. 
   I send them to gather Intel  ( data), make a study of play opportunity,  determine strategies of exploration,  investment needed, routines of execution,  betting model and betting plan. Besides , l do model my play strategy for inventualities  ( stop loss) , access the risk ( determine dinamics of expected profit growth )...ets, ets,ets...
   This is what mean " business plan". I do treat roulette as a business,  it provides income not only for me , but for these who work with me now. If you say you do same, then be it... but show me a business plan. Otherwise l can not see your "business" as something serious. 
  As always, Mickey,  nothing personal.  I just tolk money now,  and money tolk do not allow interpretations


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2019, 09:45:08 AM »
MrPerfect, my mood hasn't changed.

I play roulette to make money. The gamble aspect of roulette has long been eliminated, in other words I'm not a gambler. I too do real time research at a B/M casino where I will spend 8 hours a day without the urge to place a single bet, just watching and recording table activity, studying croupier action and changes, recording data of each spin and so on. I then sit at home and analyse collected data and weigh it against the methods I use. This is just one small aspect of the overall business approach to roulette. Furthermore, I see no justification in presenting my business plan and approach.

Have you or anyone reading this ever owned and run a business? It's simple yet complicated at the same time. The goal of any business is to be profitable and to sustain profitable growth. This requires a disciplined approach no matter what business it is. I don't sell anything or recruit people into my business; no need to do that. I make my money on my own and am happy doing so.
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Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #11 on: September 14, 2019, 11:57:14 AM »
Keep you squirrel secrets to yourself,  Mickey. Posting is one thing... but we both know how things are in reality, right? ;)


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #12 on: September 14, 2019, 12:18:54 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D   LOL  !


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #13 on: September 14, 2019, 02:32:17 PM »
Roulette is a business. If you think otherwise, you have no "business" playing roulette for a living. You don't have a business plan? You are a recreational player. Have fun. :)


Re: Roulette: WHY?
« Reply #14 on: September 14, 2019, 03:38:36 PM »
In no way l wanted to offend Mickey with my posts... maybe he has something,  maybe not.
  If not , it's funny, but if he has and trying to protect it... it's all another story....
    Even these who play for living  ( most of us know each other), we have our secrets. However ways of play are exchanged almost in open. It have always been a task to achieve details by individual determination.  Many times l spent month and month of research to understand details of what have been shared from these two.  However there are common grounds that permitted such understanding of what other do... math and physics are just enough to make it possible.  In fact it's enough to get understanding of all what is possible in this game... few proper studies and determined individual will get complete understanding of the game. Wheels are not random, factors affecting game are same everywhere, someone able to create complete mathematical model of wheel and ball can test any conditions in play ...
   Any idea can be tested if proper simulation is created and verified in practice. After a while entire dispersion of possibilities becomes visible and understandable. 
    Now imagine  someone who actually did this homework coming to this forum... he reads and starts to make simple questions in order to understand what others told. ..if suddenly it doesn't make any sense and do not correspond what have been observed in reality case after case, wheel after wheel.... what this " someone" should think about such posters?