Author Topic: Using corner bets and positive progression.  (Read 5850 times)

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Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2019, 09:32:56 PM »
We only play 1 Main number but there are 10 of them: 5,8,11,14,17,20, etc.
 

scepticus

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2019, 11:29:43 PM »
I was looking back and saw, if I had a stop loss any time, it would not help, the last two spins were needed
Jesper
Right  On , Jesper.  . If the bankroll you take to the table is calculated then you must be prepared to lose all of it !
THAT is your stop- loss .
 
The following users thanked this post: GIAJJENNO

Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2019, 01:36:57 AM »
Its not a stop loss, its a bet reduction to lock in profits.  Its possibly the most powerful tool (maybe the only tool) that we have to succeed.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 01:55:45 AM by Third »
 

Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2019, 06:00:57 AM »
Version 1.121 released!



The two major new features are a graph display of the debt and dark red numbers on the main display to show total gapping.  These features are so important that I felt the need to release them as soon as they were finished and tested.

To access the graph, you simply press the spacebar at any time.  To go back to the main screen, just hit any key (while keeping the mouse still and unclicked).

The purpose of the graph is to help us to visualize when we should lower the chips to lock in profits.  This is the only safe way to combat the "losing mode" when our debt has risen too high to fully recover with a hit on the Main number.

Losing cycles will run in alternating stages of loss and recovery and in order to keep from endangering the bankroll, we need to lock in recovery profits at a "high recovery level"; hence the purpose of the chart, so we can see what our recovery looks like, versus previous recoveries.

On the main screen now there are dark red numbers that indicate total gapping for each entire 9 number selection.  These numbers are extremely powerful for anticipating hits on our chosen selection in the near future.  Here are the statistics associated with these numbers:

Code: [Select]
0 / 0 / 1 /.000
 0 / 0 / 2 /.000
 0 / 0 / 3 /.000
 0 / 0 / 4 /.000
 0 / 0 / 5 /.000
 2 / 2 / 6 /.000
 0 / 2 / 7 /.000
 0 / 2 / 8 /.000
 0 / 2 / 9 /.000
 0 / 2 / 10 /.000
 0 / 2 / 11 /.000
 1 / 3 / 12 /.000
 1 / 4 / 13 /.000
 1 / 5 / 14 /.000
 4 / 9 / 15 /.000
 8 / 17 / 16 /.000
 4 / 21 / 17 /.000
 2 / 23 / 18 /.000
 2 / 25 / 19 /.000
 7 / 32 / 20 /.000
 11 / 43 / 21 /.000
 9 / 52 / 22 /.000
 12 / 64 / 23 /.000
 24 / 88 / 24 /.000
 21 / 109 / 25 /.000
 17 / 126 / 26 /.000
 22 / 148 / 27 /.000
 25 / 173 / 28 /.000
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 34 / 249 / 30 /.000
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 283 / 3876276 / 555 /.996
 349 / 3876625 / 556 /.996
 291 / 3876916 / 557 /.996
 263 / 3877179 / 558 /.996
 281 / 3877460 / 559 /.996
 268 / 3877728 / 560 /.996
 271 / 3877999 / 561 /.997
 265 / 3878264 / 562 /.997
 281 / 3878545 / 563 /.997
 254 / 3878799 / 564 /.997
 254 / 3879053 / 565 /.997
 259 / 3879312 / 566 /.997
 252 / 3879564 / 567 /.997
 234 / 3879798 / 568 /.997
 228 / 3880026 / 569 /.997
 231 / 3880257 / 570 /.997
 251 / 3880508 / 571 /.997
 211 / 3880719 / 572 /.997
 201 / 3880920 / 573 /.997
 224 / 3881144 / 574 /.997
 203 / 3881347 / 575 /.997
 208 / 3881555 / 576 /.997
 205 / 3881760 / 577 /.997
 190 / 3881950 / 578 /.998
 190 / 3882140 / 579 /.998
 188 / 3882328 / 580 /.998
 212 / 3882540 / 581 /.998
 180 / 3882720 / 582 /.998
 198 / 3882918 / 583 /.998
 200 / 3883118 / 584 /.998
 182 / 3883300 / 585 /.998
 157 / 3883457 / 586 /.998
 167 / 3883624 / 587 /.998
 155 / 3883779 / 588 /.998
 173 / 3883952 / 589 /.998
 153 / 3884105 / 590 /.998
 137 / 3884242 / 591 /.998
 145 / 3884387 / 592 /.998
 170 / 3884557 / 593 /.998
 158 / 3884715 / 594 /.998
 132 / 3884847 / 595 /.998
 136 / 3884983 / 596 /.998
 135 / 3885118 / 597 /.998
 135 / 3885253 / 598 /.998
 129 / 3885382 / 599 /.998
 145 / 3885527 / 600 /.998
 112 / 3885639 / 601 /.998
 117 / 3885756 / 602 /.999
 130 / 3885886 / 603 /.999
 108 / 3885994 / 604 /.999
 113 / 3886107 / 605 /.999
 118 / 3886225 / 606 /.999
 126 / 3886351 / 607 /.999
 108 / 3886459 / 608 /.999
 110 / 3886569 / 609 /.999
 101 / 3886670 / 610 /.999
 103 / 3886773 / 611 /.999
 93 / 3886866 / 612 /.999
 96 / 3886962 / 613 /.999
 88 / 3887050 / 614 /.999
 90 / 3887140 / 615 /.999
 75 / 3887215 / 616 /.999
 73 / 3887288 / 617 /.999
 84 / 3887372 / 618 /.999
 92 / 3887464 / 619 /.999
 83 / 3887547 / 620 /.999
 100 / 3887647 / 621 /.999
 88 / 3887735 / 622 /.999
 91 / 3887826 / 623 /.999
 89 / 3887915 / 624 /.999
 76 / 3887991 / 625 /.999
 80 / 3888071 / 626 /.999
 84 / 3888155 / 627 /.999
 79 / 3888234 / 628 /.999
 77 / 3888311 / 629 /.999
 79 / 3888390 / 630 /.999
 59 / 3888449 / 631 /.999
 70 / 3888519 / 632 /.999
 60 / 3888579 / 633 /.999
 57 / 3888636 / 634 /.999
 73 / 3888709 / 635 /.999
 57 / 3888766 / 636 /.999
 55 / 3888821 / 637 /.999
 62 / 3888883 / 638 /.999
 59 / 3888942 / 639 /.999
 54 / 3888996 / 640 /.999
 48 / 3889044 / 641 /.999
 55 / 3889099 / 642 /.999
 47 / 3889146 / 643 /.999
 63 / 3889209 / 644 /.999
 48 / 3889257 / 645 /.999
 57 / 3889314 / 646 /.999
 47 / 3889361 / 647 /.999
 45 / 3889406 / 648 /.999
 32 / 3889438 / 649 /.999
 42 / 3889480 / 650 /.999
 42 / 3889522 / 651 /.999
 46 / 3889568 / 652 /%1.000
 3891500

You can paste these into a notepad file.  Let's say your selection is showing total gapping of 250.  Look up 250 in the second column from the left and you will see the percentage chance of gaining a hit in the next spin: 53.8%.

The total gapping rating goes up by 9 on every spin.  I like to see 300 or greater when I am betting.  I used these numbers to gain an extra 200 units in a game that I normally would have abandoned.  I was about to close it but I noticed a top performing selection (number .8.) had over 300 total gapping.  I switched to number 8 and the next number out was 8!  The high rating continued for several more hits and when it finally dropped below 300, I left the session.

WARNING:  This total gapping rating should only be used on top peforming selections (highlighted in yellow on the pixel-felt).  The reason for this is that poor performing selections will naturally have consistently high ratings which creates a false reading.

The new column in yellow on the main screen is the last gap of the main number (before its most recent hit).
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 06:33:59 AM by Third »
 
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scepticus

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2019, 07:27:05 AM »
Third
About Stop Loss.
I was referring to Jespers point about his last two bets  winning back his losses .  I don't use - or approve negative progressions. They are a form of " Chasing Losses "  which is not a good idea.
 
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Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2019, 11:38:39 AM »
He used the term stop loss but we were talking about lowering the chips, if you check the previous post from myself to him.

The point is that the only way to win consistently with this system is to lower the chips, to lock in profits and work with the range of debt. 

Thanks for sharing about negative progressions.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 11:42:50 AM by Third »
 

Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2019, 03:00:25 PM »
Fixed the bugs that would cause the chart to flatline if the debt amounts were too far apart and draw a line through the top of the screen that could not be traced back.  Repaired version attached.



Here is a session that was under control for 15 hits but then spiraled out of control.  The first time, I kept my chips up because the statistical trends were positive and received recovery profit.  I lowered my chips to protect that profit and then there was a narrow sideways channel and I waited to see which way it would break and it broke bad.  I kept my chips up again because of the favorable statistics and received recovery profit.  I then lowered the chips again and it started to break bad but because of the lowered chips, the swing was only 1/2 as strong (and would have had to be twice as strong to reach the new all time high debt).  This was followed by another narrow sideways channel but I finally broke through.  The final channel was slightly turned upward as I kept getting small corner hits but eventually I reached profit for the session with small chips.  I didn't hit the all time high profit for the session but the point is that I protected against massive potential losses, got the session back down to profit and survived.  This same method will work in the worst sequences.

You can see every hit represented by a cyan hash mark at the top of the screen and every 5 hits is represented by a red hash mark.

We cannot play this system on auto-pilot.  We must be aware of the statistics on a hit-by-hit basis and make decisions about our chip levels with four choices:

1) Press the attack
2) Lower the chips by 1/2
3) Completely lower the chips
4) End the session

I found this graphical representation of the debt to be very helpful while playing; it inspired me to both attack and retreat in turns.  If we consciously apply the 4 choices, we can win the harshest sessions.

« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 03:19:04 PM by Third »
 

UnlikelySam

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2019, 03:20:26 PM »
Honestly Third your efforts especially from the programming side and the even more difficult / tedious aspect of testing together with debugging the program is very commendable ;)

 
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Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2019, 10:53:45 PM »
What I really like about this system is the ability of multiple numbers to affect the outcome in an exponential way, even though we are really targeting only one number.
'
"Suite the Permanance"

suite (swēt) noun
apartment consisting of a series of connected rooms used as a living unit (as in a hotel)

per·ma·nence  (pûrmə-nəns)
The quality or condition of being permanent; permanency.

OR an alternate definition:

the state of happening or existing for a long time or for all time in the future

So permanence can be meant here in two ways:

1) We stay on the same selection come fire or nuclear bomb
2) We are able to play the "suite" no matter how the outcomes manifest; i.e. indefinite/continuous play sessions

I am amazed at Jesper's success using #1 and I think with chip level tweaking based on statistics (win high, lose low), combined with judicious bet selection (play the strongest selection), we can accomplish #2; i.e. to start a new session, we simply lower all chips to 1 and continue.

As far as playing the strongest selection, I think trying to minimize switching as much as possible is best, keeping in mind that we should take the favorable opportunities to switch.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2019, 11:34:05 PM by Third »
 

GIAJJENNO

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2019, 01:07:27 AM »
Third, I dont understand when you lowering the chips, after how many no hits? Because if around our main numbers we have some hits, say every 5 spin one corner hit, we not going ahead. We raise chips, but only with corner wins we will not generate prodit,so the bomb is neccessary therefore I ask, that if we lower, reset the chips to 1 after 20 no hits, we lost very lot chips.

Can you give me an example play? In this few days I read your dofocult explanations, but my english not the best, I kb understood, but not everything of your modified play.
 
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Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2019, 05:23:47 AM »
Third, I dont understand when you lowering the chips, after how many no hits?

Every hit is a new statistical situation and we have the 4 Choices.  I don't lower chips until at least a hit is received.  After I make a Choice, I stick with it until the next hit (any hit).

There are two main modes, PROFIT and RECOVERY.  We are in profit mode when we first start and stay there until the debt rises to the point that that it can no longer get close to a full recovery; that's recovery mode.

I play profit mode conservatively (I am only looking for 100 units).  I will play the straightforward method until I make a significant gain and I will then usually lower the chips either by 1/2 or entirely and attempt to gain the rest of the 100 with a smaller risk.

In recovery mode I am concerned about debt levels which are:

1) The all time high debt
2) The current debt
3) The all time high profit recovery AND/OR the current high profit recovery

The idea is to create a "downward trajectory" with the debt.  The safe way to do this, is to lower the chips when it is likely that there will be a reversal swing.  This decision is considered after every hit. 

The basic rule is that if there have been significant gains, lower the chips to protect the recovery profit.

I consider high dark red numbers to be favorable to at least a hit (if not a streak of hits) on our selection.  I compare the numbers on our selection to the rest of the selections and if our selection is at the top or at least at 300+, its a good time to press attacks and not lower.  400-500 is very good.  Anything 600+ is fantastically good.

I also consider that if our selection has had a gap on the Main number, its next hit is to be expected to not have a gap and I will usually press attacks at that time (I only play selections [Main number] that are highlighted in yellow).

If I don't have good dark red numbers and the Main number hasn't gapped, I will check the 3 Debt Considerations and decide if I need to lower by 1/2 or back to 1 unit or if I need to ride it out for more profit.

We have to recover profit in stages, using the 3 Debt Recovery Considerations.  It takes patience, statistical analysis and difficult decisions have to be made.  Roulette fights tooth and nail at every moment before eventually letting us free.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 05:55:49 AM by Third »
 
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Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2019, 06:21:35 AM »


I made a bad decision early in this game by switching at the wrong time from a selection that was to become a rocking giant and it took me quite awhile to be able to switch back but once we hit Point 1, the statistics on this selection were fantastically good and I kept pressing and pressing the chips as the statistics kept improving more and more. 

What I didn't realize is that because the chips are so heavily raised, there is very little latitude available for dispersion which can occur as the selection will move from a red blazing hot position to just a red hot position and back.  I should have realized this at Point #2 and lowered the chips by 1/2 to lock in the obvious profits, while still having fantastic favorable statistics. 

Because I failed to do this, the wide swings illustrated took place and thankfully I was able to at least lock in at Point 3.  It may appear small but the extra 25% difference in debt levels means alot in the overall process. 

So I learned a new lesson which is to not forget to lock in profits while reaping major statistical coups!

Roulette is a powerful force, like bottled lightning; one false move and terrible things can happen...

« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 06:39:25 AM by Third »
 

Jesper

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2019, 06:43:27 AM »
Scep!  The stop loss is not the bankroll, it is the table max!  If we have high bets but not on new high, means we indeed have hits, as we use positive prog, often then just  one or two hits help us up. If we are after many spins on low bets, we are as well back, but how will we recover by reducing? we need a much higher hit rate. 

 
The following users thanked this post: GIAJJENNO, Third

Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2019, 06:49:57 AM »
If we lose with lower chips the debt climb will be smaller and as it is very much more likely that 8 side numbers will be hitting, our chips will build back up again.  At this time it is likely that we will be in a very good position to then press an attack, which yields even greater gains.

Also, lowering chips doesn't necessarily mean back to one unit, it can be lowering by 1/2 or any other amount.

Large chips creates large swings that will eclipse our bankroll.  Once the main number won't get us close to back, we need to moderate the swings, to preserve our bankroll and carefully recover our profit in chunks.  Its the same thing as using a divisor.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 07:32:07 AM by Third »
 

boyd30

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2019, 07:34:05 AM »
I find this system to work best on hot numbers. But of course a hot number can go into sleep and then you will have to trust the other numbers will hit. If you get an early hit by the outside numbers it's not a problem then you can start over. But you need the other 4 numbers to hit regulary and even a late hit of the mainnumber won't nessescary recover to start over again. You can do calculations and lower the chips but it will take time and you don't have that when you bet.. I don't understand third's calculation's though if that helps.
 
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