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Have you been cheated in a roulette game?

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Author Topic: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?  (Read 2530 times)

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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2019, 09:24:48 AM »
Ok, I'll start working on it, it will be a very long read.
 
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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2019, 12:35:24 PM »
PART 1

Where to begin?  What is remembered and what is forgotten. Circa 2002, I was a total newbie, wet behind the ears, didn’t know about any gambling forums, bet selection or progressions.

Playing Roulette at Sky City Auckland, New Zealand, losing hand over fist. Somebody I was working alongside mentioned “double up” until you win.  So I hot footed to the casino and decided to bet all 3 EC’s  doubling up until each EC won, something along those lines.

The point I wish to convey and emphasize, it is not so much the strategies deployed, which were destine to lose, rather the reactions of the casino staff.

Went to table starting at $25, betting 3 of EC’s, Wow they all lost, so I double up, lose again, the losing number wasn’t a repeat, nor was it zero.  Just me and the croupier, with a pit supervisor grinning in the back-ground.  I repeated the process two more times losing both bets and got wiped out.  So theoretically, the ball had landed, shall we say, Black, Odd, Low, 4 times in a row, no repeat, no zero. 

However, after losing the 4th bet, it was the comment the croupier said to the smirking pit that stood out, “perhaps I’m being too hard on him”. What the hell!  Were the spins random? Were they hell like.
Later in the year,  I booked a stop-over at Sky City Auckland and flew in from Wellington to Sky City Auckland with the aim of winning $5k, my strategy was to bet the opposing columns and dozens of the last number hit, triple up, yet off-set by any win so as to slow the progression rate.  Within an hour or two, I had reached my target.

Amazed, it was only mid-afternoon, I had a night booked, what should I do?As any undisciplined newbie would, you carry on playing, well its working, so why not.  At casinos you get to appreciate shift personal changes, usually on mass.  I didn’t give it a second thought that the croupier had just been un-expectantly been replaced by some Chinese guy.  I was seated at the bottom of the columns.  First spin, LOSE.

 Okay, no problem, had been playing all morning and had encountered that before.  Except this was different.  No word of a lie, I am 100% convinced the croupier tried to warn me, I will always believe this, you had to have witnessed it, rather than simply reading my  words in print.  It was clear as anything.  In hindsight obviously he was sent (the house burner, a phrase I learnt many years later via the forums) in to do a job and no doubt being monitored by the eye in the sky.

As he was scooping my lost column bets, he looked me straight in the eye and stared at me for a few seconds. He couldn’t say anything, as the tables are mic’d, but he was trying to warn me, to leave. Being stupid and naive I didn’t react, had just lost x chips, so bet again.  In the space of a few spins, I was cleaned out. Losing every spin thereafter.

Other example of dealers spinning against you, same venue. An Indian dealer, not being very good at what he was trying to do. Spun the ball so slow, it barely made 3 revolutions of the wheel, utterly blatant.

Another time at Sky City Auckland, I came up with a new option, bet against columns / dozens  that had repeated for maybe 6 times already.  Like I say, crap tactics, more to do with the floor staff. 

Jumping around tables, I’m doing fine. So I’m in a situation of betting the two outside columns, tripling my bets each time. I have about four bites, until you hit the table max.  I’m on my last bet, the Maori bitch, is aiming for the zero, I didn’t know this, but realised afterwards.  She missed it by one pocket. I don’t recall the number that hit, 26 or 32, that is not the point. After she missed the zero, the dumb cow wasn’t sure if I had won or lost.  After realising I had lost regardless of her missing the zero. She couldn’t contain herself. 

Turned to embarrassed female pit-boss and said in front of a very busy table “I got him”.  You for real, “I got him”!!!!! Yeah right, meaning, despite the table being very busy, I was the target all along.  Anger wouldn’t even cover it, not even now as I recall the memory.

Talking to a few regulars in the place, and asking why do they do this.  They told me, “if staff are good for the house, they get promoted to the VIP areas”.  “Don’t have to deal with the $1 bettors, nicer working conditions”, give away Gold bracelets and the like to employees of the month, in other words, “if you’re good for the house, you get rewarded”. .  You can’t tip down under, but the casino rewards them instead.

So besides the jealously and greater loyalty to their employer, rather than a punter who is splashing around more cash than they earn in a month, they have all the incentive in the world to take you down.
I’ve had another Maori dealer, take pity on me, asked me how I’m doing, told him losing, and all I want is random spins.  Managed to recoup my loss, but wanted to get ahead for the time spent at the table, change of dealer, yeah wipe out.  Newbie player, not knowing any better, but learning pretty fast.  There was another forum (VIP Project Sydney I think), where another poster who played at the same venue, after being cleaned out, the Maori dealer said to him, “oh, you going over there now, don’t try that at my table buddy”.  Utterly disgusting, no more than bottom feeders, trying to compete with each other. 

The realisation was beginning to drop, not only are you up against the HE, random, but also the dealer. I can’t say what I would like due to this boards censoring of words, suffice to say, starts with a ‘c’ and ends with‘ts’.  I will emphasise once again, I was a newbie who knew nothing, all strategies used I would class as flawed, however, the point I am trying to get across, is the dealers reactions.

No idea how much the entire foray at Sky s***ty cost me, probably in the region of $20k.
These are the main recollections, others have faded.
 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 12:51:02 PM by MrBac »
 
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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2019, 12:36:04 PM »
 PART TWO, Sky City Adelaide, circa 2004

Pining for a recoup from Auckland, but leaving things alone for some time.  I appreciated (finally) that dealers were not only neutral, but would spin against you to make you lose should the need arise.  I believed stupidly like most on the forums, they could section spin, but not hit specific numbers (trust me, an experienced croupier can, more on that later).

Honestly, it really, really grates me, when experienced posters / players believe this can’t be done, when you play at a certain level, you will quickly discover the opposite is true, I can post a youTube video which demonstrates if I can find it. Even the infamous Mark Howie once posted he invited a croupier to his home, for some demo purposes, and came to the same conclusion. 

Being a fan of the odds, “more ways to win, than to lose”.  I concocted a system (1 column and 8 splits) where I was covering 28 numbers (including zero), where all losing numbers had a winning number either side.  Basically the dealer had to be pretty good for me to lose?  3.5 spins is break even, 4 wins for to recoup plus minor profit. Flat betting $25 chips.

Went in on a Friday, place was packed, busy table, trainee dealer (this is the crucial bit).  I was working out of my pockets, hardly any chips on the table (probably helped). Anyway, I had no idea how much I was ahead, I simply counted the number of wins needed, anytime I lost a spin. Pockets bulging after many hours go to the cage. Won in the region of $5k.  I went back on the Saturday and repeated the fate.

I was new to the place, they didn’t know me and I had just taken $10k off them in two night, call it luck or whatever, doesn’t matter.  If you were in my situation, besides being on cloud 9, you would think you had it made, give up your job and make a living from the casinos.

Why wouldn’t anybody think that way, turning $350 into $10k after only 2 nights.

I can’t recall what happened on the Sunday, I was looking for the same trainee, she was nowhere to be seen.  I probably got hit too many times before securing 4 wins. Impatience kicked in, convinced it was a good system, 6 chips on an outside column and 8 splits (yes I now realise, there are easier ways to cover 28 numbers).  Anyway, I made a BIG FATAL MISTAKE, I decided to speed up the recoup by doubling the bet after any loss. 

It was around 6pm Monday, whatever happened Sunday, I was determined to recoup and then some. Empty table, will never forget the slime dealer, named was Robert.
Laid out my chips, number 24 hits, one of my losing numbers. So I’m thinking “bad start”,  not to worry, have faith.  $700 laid out, 24 hits again.  It is worth pointing out here, at the time, while I knew they could section spin, I knew nothing about “from where they release the ball”, control of revolutions, inner wheel sped. 

$1400 on the table, paying no attention, 24 hits again. It gets a bit fuzzy now, it was a long time ago, I think I went one more time, laying out $2800, I walked a few meters way from the table to use an ash-tray.  Yep, you guessed right, 24 AGAIN.  Here is the rub, as I staggered back to the table, after noticing24 was showing on the marquee. Robert was scooping up my chips, he looked directly at me and said “what were the odds in that”.  No way on this planet what had just occurred was not deliberate.  After cashing in $10k on the weekend, I was well and truly marked.

Sometime later, I dabbled with covering 30 numbers.  One particular morning, I was doing ok.  A unscheduled dealer change. One of my losing numbers, was number 6. Dealer comes in, the pit-boss said to this dealer, “put it on 6”.    I clearly heard it. Don’t ask me why I didn’t move tables, I didn’t believe he would do it in first spin.

However, I thought, if he gets anywhere near number 6, I’ll move.  I didn’t get the chance, first spin, number 6. I’ve experienced dealers concentrating on the marque countless times, when they had no need, trying to figure out, where I would go next, because I started placing chips after ball release. It was horrendous, literally.   

Going to a table, placing a few hundred on the outside columns, bang first spin zero, “sorry about that”. Nothing but a load of cheating jealous bastards.

Wasn’t long after that I gave up Roulette and focused on Baccarat.  But it doesn’t end there.
 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 12:43:55 PM by MrBac »
 
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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2019, 12:36:49 PM »
PART 3, Gentings UK, circa 2010

After reading about Equilibrium vs Imbalanced, I decided to apply it to the 3 EC’s (I’ve posted about this on this forum).  Worked a charm for about a month, literally playing every night, I was winning constantly.  What you have to appreciate, when you are at the tables daily / nightly, you see the same regulars; you become very familiar with your surroundings and the game. 

One session, things seemed different, the ball sounded different, making more noise, didn’t bounce as much.  The casino had changed the ball, wasn’t just me that noticed it, so did the regulars.  Now more zero’s appeared, heavier ball, better for the dealers to hit specific numbers due to less scatter.

After struggling, I decided to start venturing afar. Went to one venue, oh my God, I have never experienced anything so blatant, in regards to this particular female crabby dealer trying her best to make me lose.    Losing straight off the bat, placing 3 EC’s at once. Unable to recoup, buyin after buyin after buyin.  Was placing bets after ball release, was placing bets then moving them to their correct location after ball release, hedging the zero.

What was supposed to be a few hours, turned into about 10 hours of misery.    Finally the witch’s shift came to an end, my composure shoot to pieces, I decided to pocket my chips and not leave them on the table, so the bastards didn’t know if I was up or down.  Late at night, I finally got a few hundred ahead and took great pleasure in cashing up at the table.  I was followed to the cage by some snarly looking pit-boss, so I tuned to him after cashing out and said “make sure you tell the earlier dealer, I did ok in the end”, which he didn’t appreciate.

I went with a mate to another small provincial Genting casino, about 20 miles out of town. I was still winning every session, so told him to follow my bets.  Boy did we struggle, I don’t know why.  It’s a hard to accept when you’re many thousands ahead after weeks and weeks of consecutive wins.  But we decided to quit, he lost, I later found a £25 chip in my pocket, so I actually won £25 LOL.

When the dealer knew we had stopped playing, we got chatting. Again, no word of lie, nobody was betting at the table. The dealer said, “I’m now going to spin 007, because it’s been a few years since I’ve done that”.  I’m thinking, this is going to be a real eye opener for my mate, I already knew what they can do.  1st spin, zero, 2nd spin zero, 3rd spin, hit the 7, but jumped to the next pocket.

To believe an experienced dealer can’t place the ball on a specific number is utter nonsense (the house burner), once you play at a certain level, you will quickly find out. If you are betting low stakes, there is no need for them to do anything, once you consistently start taking profit into four figures, you will be stopped, by any means necessary.  Since 2002, I’ve had the fortune to be able to converse with dealers through friends, none of them dispute what I believe they can do is false.   As I eluded, I’ve done it all, betting after ball release, moving chips after ball release, witnessed their long stares at the marque. Why should any of this be even necessary, it shouldn’t, yet is.

As I’ve said, I would not go anywhere near any casino game where the dealer is directly influencing the outcome, bar tips, they are clearing on average £350 per week in the UK, basically the minimum wage, they are not on your side wanting you to win more than they earn in a month.

Cheating at Baccarat?  Yes, it is also my belief that happened, but not provable.  All to do with circumstances and casino policy, which I doubt many of you are aware of. I’ll leave that for another time.  Take from the above, what you will, not so much to do with how I played, more to do with the comments endured, witnessed.

The tip of an ice-berg, obviously it works the other way, friend of a friend who knows  a dealer working in the VIP area, friend is getting married, an arrangement is made, was told how much he is allowed to win and not to push things beyond that. Tip given away from casino premises, dodgy dealings, with people you dare not cross.

Granted some are useless at section spinning, some are top notch.   
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 12:47:24 PM by MrBac »
 
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Third

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2019, 02:03:38 PM »
I would believe that shuffling machines can make the deck be in any order, right?  So playing shoe after shoe at the same table would be a no-no?  Also having a simple bet selection would be a no-no?

So, with a hit and run & undecipherable bet selection, a person should be safe with baccarat?

Oh, there is one other way, where the dealers will report the results incorrectly?
 

kav

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Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2019, 03:04:17 PM »
Thank you very much for these posts MrBac!
 
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Badger

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2019, 03:51:52 PM »
Awesome post Mr B.
I wish more regular players would share their experiences.
 
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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2019, 04:35:45 PM »
I would believe that shuffling machines can make the deck be in any order, right?  So playing shoe after shoe at the same table would be a no-no?  Also having a simple bet selection would be a no-no?

So, with a hit and run & undecipherable bet selection, a person should be safe with baccarat?

Oh, there is one other way, where the dealers will report the results incorrectly?
The angel shuffle machines can not pre-order shoes, however they do make them extremely choppy due to the thoroughness of the shuffle.  Some casinos simply bring in pre-shuffled cards straight from the manufacturer, which are not again shuffled at the table, just cut.   

Let's save the Baccarat chat for another thread, this is about roulette  ;)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2019, 04:37:37 PM by MrBac »
 
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UnlikelySam

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2019, 04:58:56 PM »
Awesome posts MrBac ; a very intriguing memoir indeed. I can literally just envision being there first hand as you recount each moment. Yes I do believe dealers can aim for a certain number / sector ; seen that quite a bit when hitting the Blackjack tables and waiting around at times and just observing... What you experienced can be likened to a rigged RNG where if you covered 35 numbers and zero it will hit on that very 1 number you never cover ; what a flipping ripoff!!! Great posts enjoyed reading them keep em coming if there's more to add...
 
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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2019, 05:20:09 PM »
Thanks, I'll make a post about some rather unusual behaviour at the Baccarat tables, why it had to happen, and what I was told after the event.

Suffice to say, if you are winning consistently, casinos will not sit back and do nothing.
 
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MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2019, 12:25:16 PM »
For those who haven't seen this before.
Yes, it's a cruise ship, Eastern European.  Note the pr1ck at the end in the grey suit rubbing his hands in glee.

newbielink:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zm5wMxvHwg4 [nonactive]
 :'(
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 12:27:57 PM by MrBac »
 
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Third

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2019, 12:44:24 PM »
That so looked like magnets!
 

kav

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Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2019, 12:57:17 PM »
Thanks for pointing out this.
 

MrBac

Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2019, 08:32:38 PM »
Hi Kav, can you fix the link so it is displayed normally, it's got newbie in front or the URL.
 

kav

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Re: Have you been cheated in a roulette game?
« Reply #29 on: May 31, 2019, 12:43:38 AM »
No I can't fix it. However it's easy for people to copy paste it - no problem