Author Topic: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.  (Read 8122 times)

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Stratege

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #15 on: March 04, 2019, 06:50:26 PM »

I agree with Greek "Why do you spend so much money on education, rather than" learning "on your own losing?".

I was 25 years old when I learned the counting of blackjack cards (with a good book at 30 €). After several months of training, I tried with 10 chips. I was quickly troubled by the real game and I counted badly. Second experience is a little better but not correct enough. So, I paid a jobless person to be my dealer (because it was silly for me to learn in a casino losing my money, because I do not have a player mentality). I also trained with another "blackjack-man". Then I counted up without playing and it was ok. I practiced this game successfully. My apprenticeship did not enrich the casinos, I gave a little work to a person and it is a beautiful experience. I say then those who don’t have a gambling mentality can easily experience casino games and become very good technicians without actually losing money.

There is also a huge problem for people who are learning live at the casino. They learn to enjoy playing without winning. Their brain learns to have an easy and effortless pleasure. So, when they start losing too much, how can they otherwise condition their brains? very difficult, the brain does not want to make efforts since it has fun easily. So, players cannot easily make very serious searches. This can be seen on forums with very simple, fun methods that are discussed at length without doing any effort (testing). I say this truth so that some players change some bad habits. Gismotron left on this forum documents on Pavlovian packaging ...
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 06:54:00 PM by Stratege »
 
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MickyP

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2019, 05:23:11 AM »
The title of the thread is growing/evolving as a roulette player which should indicate that there is already a foundation as a player. The first part of your post Stratege talks about being a new player and being overwhelmed by activity at the tables.

Your second part is dedicated to recreational players and I don't buy it as a point of discussion relevant to this topic.

Players will go through the normal drill and excitement of finding a promising system but will not test it for themselves nor will they try and improve it if they did run some tests. Players rush out to win win win and are mostly brought down to earth with lose lose lose.

Remember that it is always easier to judge with the benefit of hindsight in your pocket. No person anticipates losing large amounts that goes to the tables with a system/method tried and tested by the player and others (forum members). The player expects to win because he has blindly put his faith into a "winning system/method. It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play.

If a player really wants to go out and win win win then from the very beginning they should study AP and master it to a point where win win win is possible.
 

Stratege

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2019, 07:08:47 PM »

I answer to Mr. MickyP who does not see the interest of my message!

I explained that it is an illusion to believe that a player must go through a loss phase to understand and finally win. To say the opposite is to induce the players to lose and to think that it is a fatality to cross before understanding and winning. On forums, members say they have up to 20 or 30 years of roulette experience is not yet found a winning method (and some are programmers or search with a programmer). Losing is absolutely not a miracle recipe to win then. Curiously, these "researchers" buy very few methods but agree to lose, like idiots, money against some emotions with roulette. So, it's just not healthy to suggest to beginners that losing is the inevitability to go through before winning. My blackjack experience demonstrates quite the opposite (and I have shown that we can "grow / evolve to a" winning "level without actually losing money on the gaming tables. The logic of a player mentality that lost and still lost is to say that he has gained experience of the game. Explanation: on a psychological level the process of "rationalization" allows a person to relativize his experience to keep a positive image on his behavior.

I also point out to Mr. MickyP that I did not talk about "recreational" players, but about forum members who are looking for a method. In reality, your "methodology", according to your quote, seldom provides a solution "It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play.". The reason for this is that a player is rarely a theoretician and even less often a designer. In addition, a history of spins we find on the net, no need to watch a roulette and a ball, since we must watch the manifestations of the hazard ! Some members on this forum tend to say (explicitly or implicitly) that we should not buy methods from authors and also say that it is by losing to the game that we will find, as if by magic, a way to beat the roulette ! My position is absolutely opposite. Buy books from serious authors. Test their theories, combine the theories of several authors, and invent a solution that does not exist in books. We can “possibly” do this work without losing a single unit of his bankroll !
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 07:18:04 PM by Stratege »
 
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MickyP

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2019, 07:56:32 PM »
I must applaud you on the mumbled objection to my clear response. You do it every time and it only gets better and better. See what experience does?

Now, to address a very important issue but I'm not sure whether to question you or just correct you and hope you fall in line. My pseudonym on the forum is MickyP and not Mr MickyP. Correct the manner you address me or I will have to call you Master Strategy, lol.

Please go back and read your post above. You will note that you have made some very absurd points supposedly based on psychology and you claim to have proved a point "and I have shown that we can "grow / evolve to a" winning "level without actually losing money on the gaming tables.". No, you have simply tried to justify your own experience as a universally acceptable norm and any thinking person can spot that a mile away.

In the case of war breaking out both sides believe they can and will win but we know that one will win and one will lose. In rare cases a truce is called.

It is common for people to believe or have untested faith in their ability to win (that's psychology). It is for this reason that gambling is so attractive. The test is more in our untested faith than the surety of a winning method.
 

MickyP

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2019, 08:17:57 PM »
Strategy, you wrote; "The reason for this is that a player is rarely a theoretician and even less often a designer. In addition, a history of spins we find on the net, no need to watch a roulette and a ball, since we must watch the manifestations of the hazard ! "
And in the same paragraph you end with these words;
"My position is absolutely opposite. Buy books from serious authors. Test their theories, combine the theories of several authors, and invent a solution that does not exist in books. We can “possibly” do this work without losing a single unit of his bankroll !"

Thank you for the correct use of the word invent.


Do you not see the contradiction in your statements?


By the way, the recorded history I was referring to is a player recording his own games for evaluation after the fact.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:19:55 PM by MickyP »
 

Greek

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2019, 08:47:08 PM »
"A man in eastern Arizona was killed after he asked another man to fire a gunshot at the bulletproof vest he was wearing, officials say."

He is an example of testing something live gone wrong. In this case, the person lost his life. Playing roulette live with real money on a method or system that has not been tested, also have it's consequences. What a price to pay to grow and evolve as a roulette player. It's unnecessary to lose money when trying to grow and evolve as a roulette player.

I understand players will lose money when they play roulette. They don't know any better. A professional knows how to avoid such pitfalls. It's just common sense. Invest in education, take lessons from a professional, read books, whatever it takes to "invent" or formulate ones own approach, if not adopt someone else's winning method. Certainly, do not practice live and lose money. If it's not tested properly. It may not be bullet proof.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2019, 08:48:41 PM by Greek »
 
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Stratege

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2019, 09:26:16 PM »

Greek, you wrote a good message but also a beautiful message. It is fluid, bravo! In terms of ideas we think the same thing. I have "invested a lot" in the books, so I know that alone in front of a roulette wheel I could not have understood everything I know now. I had a mentor, I was in contact with talented authors. And without this culture, I would not have become creative, I would still be looking for serious bases without having a good judgment to "sort the good grain"!

Mr. MickyP, there is no contradiction in my message. I have already said that any scientific researcher will study the theories already known. He does not reinvent knowledge, otherwise he will spend his life to understand what others have already verified. A player who studies at home what he did in front of a roulette is good, but there are few players who know how to lead to a solution. It is a very uncertain way. Studying the knowledge of others is much more certain if we have an analytical potential. Everyone does not have enough abstract intelligence. Moreover, on the forums, many need a member to give a structure before embarking on a path that suggests a chance of success, otherwise they do not have the energy (motivation) to make uncertain efforts. It's normal, a good idea gives convictions and energy.
 
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MickyP

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2019, 10:59:15 PM »
Master Strategy, You did contradict yourself but made up for it in your following post so I'll let the dribble slide for now.

Greek, a good post.

Gentlemen, if you focus on the whole thread and use my opening post as a starting point you will see that we are all basically saying the same thing. I just emphasized the point of dealing with loss which is a part of the game.
I do not dispute the fact that there are some good books that may help players better understand the game, especially the math of the game but I do not promote the purchase of a book simply because it was published. Too many scams and rubbish out there. The point that I mentioned is that seasoned players are a vital source of "good" information for players who wish to improve their game. They may recommend a worthwhile book to purchase.

This thread can be considered a worthy read for players as there are some strong points of view posted that may help some players evaluate their current position and inspire a way forward.

What I have said on many occasions is that testing and evaluation must be thorough before real money is waged. Logic, isn't it?
 
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Stratege

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2019, 05:09:30 PM »

Mr. MichyP, be explicit. If you say that I contradicted myself, please quote the information. Don’t keep things from the past for later, when the context is gone. Live in the present, without projecting yourself into a hypothetical future, in which you will use arguments against me ("I'll let the dribble slide for now"). You project yourself into a future that is not harmonious, you "know" in advance that you will use something against me! Your takeover scenario is not finished. In reality, you have little to say about roulette, so you fill with a confused speech. Say things entirely. Members and visitors read you, think about your duty of coherence.

Observe your inconsistencies (it would be better). We don’t all say the same thing. Greek and I have another experience. We don’t have this fatalistic view that you have, as well as some of the other members: "It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play" Your last post would like to forget your quote above. But the difference is enormous, between the acquisition of the authors' knowledge and the uncertain personal observation. In this single quote from you, I do not agree on 2 points (no need to lose money at roulette to learn, the personal analysis of his spins is a very uncertain way if we do not have a theoretical luggage).

I add that I did not find anything useful on roulette with the mathematical books. On the other hand, the books on roulette written by mathematicians are of incomparable utility. At the end of your last message you contradict your quote (above written the day before yesterday). In fact, you say that you have to test long before going to play real money. It's pure contradiction! You would be nice then not to invent contradiction in my messages and observe how you want to create confusion to try to change your word. You can read about it "The Peter Pan Syndrome". But changing your speech shows that you change your belief in a fatality of loss to learn. Presenting such a fatality to beginners was distressing, so thank you for changing your speech !
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 05:24:16 PM by Stratege »
 

MickyP

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2019, 08:47:28 PM »
Hahaha...a double dose of dribble with extra cream.

Stratege you sound like a desperate pastor so I'll add the title Pastor to your new improved name "Master Strategy" (note the correct spelling) So, Pastor Master Strategy (PMS for short) lets continue to the lesson, shall we.

You said; "a player is rarely a theoretician and even less often a designer" meaning that MOST players do not have the capacity to study and design roulette systems or methods but obviously you have that gift because you are an elite holy man; not so PMS?
You then say; "Test their theories, combine the theories of several authors,
and invent a solution that does not exist in books." This means that players CAN study and design systems and methods.

Sounds like you are saying players are stupid then you say they are clever. That's a contradiction and it occurred in one post and in one paragraph for that matter.

See why I relate your long winded posts to dribble? You use words that makes it difficult for some to follow what you are trying to say. All your long winded posts come to nothing. The only thing I can see from your posts is an attempt to diplomatically make a stand against an aggressor (me). A poor attempt at trying to create a Gandhi moment for yourself.

Anyway let me continue with the lesson. If you bothered to read my opening post on this thread you will see that there is much common ground with what others have posted. My story remains the same but I did include a little extra on losing. Loss is an integral part of roulette. Every system/strategy/method will encounter losses in the course of play and I simply stated that a player (with an established roulette foundation) should understand loss as part of the game.
You can prepare yourself in the holiest of ways and no matter what system/strategy/method you play, you will experience loss at the table. There is no getting around this fact.

My words "It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play"  Great words, I should quote them more often.

You see, even with players that have tested an approach at home, when they play it in a casino at a table they will experience the ups and downs of each new sequence of numbers played. Players should keep record of casino play and evaluate their performance at home. With this comes small adjustments, new rules and maybe scrapping an old rule or two. It;s called tweaking the system/strategy/method or approach. This is a reaction mostly to loss but can also be to improve or increase wins. Players are or should be in constant alert mode and should always evaluate their games after the fact. As Giajjenno stated "Learning never stops". I agree with him.

PMS, do you get to light a candle every time you think you have outsmarted this fox? I will tell you the sky is blue and you will disagree because in your astral travel adventures you saw that the whole planet is blue not only the sky. That is not the same as thinking outside the box. Hope I cleared up your confusion to a point but if not I am willing to explain myself using small powerful words.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2019, 09:00:38 PM by MickyP »
 
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scepticus

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #25 on: March 07, 2019, 01:14:10 AM »
 :D :D :D :D :D
 
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Stratege

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2019, 07:13:32 PM »

Mr. MickyP, you have a lot of imagination to deduce so many things in my messages, without understanding the realism of my words. I offer you a nice contradiction of mr j in this discussion (March 02) "If you cannot make a living from your method, then you have trash". Two weeks ago, Third said he was paying his bills with his winnings from the game. So, mr j said it's not healthy to do that. Let's move on to your message. Yes, I say that players rarely have the ability to build a winning method (at a professional level). Few players have five main conditions: having a scientific culture, knowing how to use a computer, having time to think and test like a "pro", having a personality compatible with research (without amateurism), and especially having a culture on the roulette (know theories and relevant strategies). I do not have a special gift that others would not have. If I had this gift, I would not have studied hundreds of books about games. I cover pretty well the 5 conditions mentioned. Studying several types of games is also an important element in shaping one's mind. Players can actually build methods (losers) as much as they want. The reality is that players who succeed in finding a winning method are very rare, but a player may have Luck.

Most players have an obstacle in front of them: the passion of the game. This passion seeks strong emotions. This is a problem, because scientific reasoning becomes difficult. I have already said that a brain that learns to have fun in the game, will hardly make intense intellectual efforts for research. When the casino becomes a temple of pleasure, why would a brain make efforts (thus a job) that will take away some of this pleasure? What I say here is a big cause of failure in finding a (winning) method. Insidiously, the game can become a way for the player to unleash impulses and out of this scenario is very difficult. If I compare my evolution, for two years for example, with other members on other forums (which I know), the difference is huge. The reason for this is that I have acquired a good foundation to think "enough" correctly, so I do "enough" regularly small discoveries (which improve my strategy).

Mr. MickyP, see also that you say very ordinary things (losses are part of the game ...), you speak as an amateur. You then say that the player analyzes his last spins and modifies his method. Do you know what are the consequences of such a practice on a pro bankroll? Your lyrics are too basic to suggest that you are serious about roulette. By the way, you said in a discussion that your goal is to earn 9 daily bankrolls in 20 days. In general, a daily bankroll represents 1/6 or 1/10 of the total bankroll of the speculator. Your winnings are then exceptional, far superior to other "pro" players. But you are not the only one to say strange, mysterious, or hard to understand things. For example, mr j said he had reached his goal of winning the day quickly. He had gone home after 25 minutes. This concept of goal gain / loss applies to losing methods to avoid losing too quickly, it is a way to delay bankruptcy.

A coherent game consists of setting a game time, a number of spins or a number of attacks in a specific time ... When we have a winning method, we have a % of units won according to an average of number of spins played. Stop and go home very quickly, no sense, it is a waste of time in the car and to prepare. The average of winnings is therefore required according to a number of spins played, and quickly leaving the table is contrary to a good profitability of his time (if we have enough to play again or to wait for an attack and lead it to Ideally, we could play day and night, non-stop, with our full bankroll and realize our average gain (or transmit the bankroll to his partner so he continues to play) .I emphasize this detail because that when we test a method, the gains are in the continuity of the test. We will not find favorable cuts in the game that sets a goal gain / loss. Good I know, we are on a forum, so some members say win at roulette, but their lyrics are sometimes far removed from the reality of the winning game.

Here is Mr. MickyP, you repeat evidence thinking that this is a science and you say strange things, such as this fatality of loss, or also get 9 daily bankrolls per month (the Hazard is not monthly). Observe also that the "supposed" contradictions that you find in my messages concern very superficial things. Note also that you "understand" very badly the depth of my messages. I think you have done too little research on roulette to not understand me and to insist on things of a beginner level.

My message is very long, I apologize in front of the members, but there are some very important things that are discussed (the exaggeration of the gains of the game that deceive the beginners, the objective gain / loss which is not coherent, to find a winning method is not as simple as it says, losing a lot of money to learn is not a mandatory scenario ...).  ;)
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 07:46:05 PM by Stratege »
 
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mr j

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2019, 08:54:03 PM »
"Third said he was paying his bills with his winnings from the game. So, mr j said it's not healthy to do that">>>> I specifically SAID, dont pay your bills with your winnings?? What post was that?
 
 

mr j

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2019, 08:56:47 PM »
"For example, mr j said he had reached his goal of winning the day quickly. He had gone home after 25 minutes. This concept of goal gain / loss applies to losing methods to avoid losing too quickly, it is a way to delay bankruptcy.

A coherent game consists of setting a game time, a number of spins or a number of attacks in a specific time ... When we have a winning method, we have a % of units won according to an average of number of spins played. Stop and go home very quickly, no sense" >> This is nothing more than your opinion. I dont agree with it. I dont have to agree with it.
 

Greek

Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
« Reply #29 on: March 08, 2019, 12:34:30 AM »
Growing or evolving as a roulette player starts off for many players for different reasons but the quest is a common one; to learn how to best improve on the profitability that the game promises.

We latch onto this idea that we can be profitable players because it is achievable and there are many ways to reach that "I have arrived" moment.

There are many factors that players need to take cognizance of and these factors need to be molded into ones personality and approach to the game.

The most common growth point is reducing the amount of numbers you bet on and this is saddled by a bet selection method.
Besides doing the hard work yourself, learning or getting direction from seasoned players is almost imperative. Getting involved in discussions and asking awkward questions then testing new found information against your approach is all part of the evolving package.

Giajjenno is a player that I can use as an example of an evolving player.

My journey with roulette is no different from all of you here. We share one thing in common, we all started playing roulette at sometime. However, we all took different paths. I have studied many years, played and lost as well. Discovery and innovation has led me to "my" Holy grail. You will not find any of my concepts in books, forums, or even the internet.

Evolution is a never ending process. I would have loved to have learned from a mentor. Painfully, I had to read about roulette by going to the libraries, physically hunting down information, no internet in my time. Today, many players take the easy access to information for granted. How has growing and evolving helped me? The information I have, meant I could not trust anyone. So, I had to take classes on how to operate a computer. I had to learn how to work on spreadsheets. Only then, I could create the foundation for the Holy grail.

In the beginning, I sought a roulette mentor, a professional player. There was none. Now, I am a professional roulette player. I am the mentor, leader of a formidable international group of elite professional roulette players. I know, I know, "prove it" you say. I don't have have to, "I think, therefore, I am." René Descartes

Greek
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 12:45:53 AM by Greek »
 
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