Author Topic: DOUBLE DOZENS  (Read 2840 times)

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Jake007

DOUBLE DOZENS
« on: October 31, 2018, 02:35:40 AM »
Bankroll needed: 2200 units

#1 - spin the wheel for 20 spins and take note of which two dozens do the best
#2 - bet on the two best dozens with a progression on each dozen: 1, 3, 9, 27, 81, 243, 729
#3 - keep track of which dozens are doing the best and always bet on the best two dozens
#4 - drop back down to level 1 on any win

I went through 90 spins with a profit of 50 units.

level 1 (1u) = 70-20 (78%)
level 2 (3u) = 10-5 (66%)
level 3 (9u) = 3-1 (75%)
level 4 (27u) = 1-0 (100%)

I never got past level four.

Play it & have some fun!  Will you even get to level seven???

scepticus

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 10:46:35 AM »
2200 Bankroll needed Jake ?  JEEEEEZ -US  C  !
An  improvement on Ignatus though  !

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Jake007

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 12:35:52 PM »
HAHA. I mostly posted this to get people to think of different methodologies while creating their own systems. As you can see from the chart posted here I based my theory on the 99.9% chance of winning within 6.6 spins. Each level of the system is based on upon the 75% win rate on the chart which for two dozen columns would be 1.33 spins, I rounded down to 1 spin.

With this technique you could create a system on any bet really. As an example using the chart you could create a system on a double street. Using 75% rule each level of the system would be 8 spins. If you dont win within 8 spins you would move down a level and so on.

It would look something like this:
Bankroll needed: 4300 units, minimum profit: 6 units

#1 - spin the wheel for 20 spins and take note of which DOUBLE STREET does best
#2 - bet on the best DOUBLE STREET with a progression scale listed below
#3 - keep track of which DOUBLE STREET does best and always bet on the best DOUBLE STREET for each level of the system
#4 - drop back down to level 1 on any win

PROGRESSION LEVEL
LVL 1 = 1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4
LVL 2 = 5,6,7,8,9,11,13,15
LVL 3 = 17,20,23,27,32,37,43,50
LVL 4 = 59,69,80,93,109,127,148,173
LVL 5 = 202,235,275,320,374,436,509,594

You can employ this idea across any bet type... corners, splits, even single number. You can form your own set of rules such as instead of monitoring best double streets wait for a trigger of your preference.

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Jake007

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 12:40:23 PM »
So on the DOUBLE STREET idea I just posted you could skip #1 of tracking the best double street and just begin betting on the first double street... numbers 1-6. On a win, move to the next double street. If you feel comfortable using triggers to pick your double street, do that.

If a double street doesnt win after the first level, I keep it on the same double street. +100 unit profit took much less time than my two dozens method first posted. All wins happened within level 1 except for one which went into level 2. Not bad at all.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 12:46:42 PM by Jake007 »

Jake007

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 04:12:44 PM »
In honour of Reyth who likes to use the roulette simulator site for his youtube videos, I did a +100 profit game using the double street idea...

and a simulation of what it takes to get +20 units profit with the DOUBLE DOZENS idea...

https://roulette-simulator.info/en/game/df8507b3cc77461057c5b6c0958dd908
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 04:24:30 PM by Jake007 »

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Mako

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 06:00:52 PM »
So on the DOUBLE STREET idea I just posted you could skip #1 of tracking the best double street and just begin betting on the first double street... numbers 1-6. On a win, move to the next double street. If you feel comfortable using triggers to pick your double street, do that.

If a double street doesnt win after the first level, I keep it on the same double street. +100 unit profit took much less time than my two dozens method first posted. All wins happened within level 1 except for one which went into level 2. Not bad at all.

Or just FTL on your selected bet type, that's fine as well.

The problem you run into is of course variance, where that "99.90%" comes faster than expected and wipes you out.

Once I ran some doublestreet progressions in RX on autopilot using real spins and sure enough no matter what bet selection I used my selected DS would go over 50 spins without a hit often enough to make it not worth the effort...even using FTL or "hottest" or whatever selection criteria I could think of.

The game can be maddening, that's for sure.

Good to see you posting though Jake, and I like your "75%" approach to levels.  Keep at it.

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Jake007

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 06:57:57 PM »
Understood. And that really is the point of this thread. The battle over variance. The main system I created and use is related to what I am posting here. Im posting this stuff because I LOVE roulette and hope to see dialog. There are many angles one could take such as stretching the progression, creating more levels, bet amounts, focusing on hot numbers, hot sectors, trigger points, etc. You could create a profitable system with enough tweaking. Sure my own system is not infallible, however I have never lost in the two or so years Ive finalized it. Ive never lost. I know I will lose, but I have not yet. I have done some calculations to get rough estimates of failure rates for what Ive created but its all just numbers on paper because of variance. And YES I do believe Real is right when he mentions gamblers fallacy. I get it. I truly do.

But theres always a way around any obstacle. Im so far ahead that if I were to lose because of variance and lose my bankroll I would not even feel it. If you have \$100 in your pocket and give \$1 to a friend, you dont feel it. So yes, I understand where people are coming from on the board. I lost a lot of games and bankroll those early days and I kept reading and studying and created my own setup and own sets of rules to something I feel comfortable with. It will fail me at some point and I dont care. Personally, I doubt there is a true holy grail to roulette... it seems to be the most perfect game in so many ways, yet I also think there are ways to create a strategy that comes close to a holy grail. Thats really what Ive focused on. You dont have to focus on a holy grail per se. Just a strategy that win often. You win 5,000 times but losing once or twice wont have any affect. Thats really my holy grail.

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Mako

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2018, 10:05:23 PM »
That's an excellent way to describe it, agree fully.  I've been doing a simple aggressive progression on repeats lately and it's been working well.  Once I get it past 1000 cycles I'll post about it fully, want to make sure it's 'DECENT' as Ken would say.

It's almost to that point you mentioned where you don't mind a loss...or even two back-to-back quickly, because you're positive enough that it doesn't matter.

Out of curiosity do you wait for any virtual results on your progressions? Like say if you're playing double dozens, waiting for a single dozen to repeat 2-3 time before beginning bets on the other two using your 5 levels?

Palestis would add a few virtual losses to what you're doing, then enter a suspended animation chamber right there on the casino floor, setting the AI controller to wake him up after a dozen 'missed' enough.  It would hit once a month or so, but it's a proven winner for sure.

(just kidding Palestis, love your work!)
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 10:06:55 PM by Mako »

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dobbelsteen

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2018, 09:00:11 PM »
SSB for dozens is also a system (strategy) for the double dozens. see my video on YouTube.

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Jake007

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2018, 12:31:04 AM »
Thank You Dobblesteen! Its a system that works and Ive played it from time to time.
For anyone out there reading this thread the second idea using double streets... I will name it "DRIVING THE DOUBLE STREETS"... I have played this hundreds of times now since posting and never got past bet 27u on level 3. Not bad at all. Ive updated rules below. Its simple to play, but could be refined by adjusting minimum profit and other variables such as picking a double street based on a trigger of sorts.

Bankroll needed: 4300 units, minimum profit: 6 units

#1 - start your first 1u bet with the DOUBLE STREET "1-6"
#2 - use progression scale listed below
#3 - drop back down to level 1 on any win
#4 - advance to the next DOUBLE STREET on any win

PROGRESSION LEVEL
LVL 1 = 1,1,2,2,2,3,3,4,4
LVL 2 = 5,6,7,8,9,11,13,15
LVL 3 = 17,20,23,27,32,37,43,50
LVL 4 = 59,69,80,93,109,127,148,173
LVL 5 = 202,235,275,320,374,436,509,594

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BlueAngel

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Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2018, 06:26:55 PM »
Thanks for sharing Jake, I'd like to give a couple of ideas.

Let's begin with the double-streets (lines), I've tested a betting method suggested by Bayes at another forum.
The selection is 3 lines, the average, the cold and the hot, we double up each time we lose since there are 18 numbers in total (3 x 6 = 18).

I've set my testing limit to 9 steps, 1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256, that's 511 x 3 = 1533 units.
So far I've tested about 3,000 bets and never busted, it has reached 9th step only once, and 8th step only 3 times.
The net profit is approximately 3,500 units, which means that even if it would bust on the very next bet it would still have a net of 2,000 units approximately.

I was curious to see if other Martingales with ECs, streets and numbers would survive for the same results as the lines did, so I did test 8 more martingale variations and ALL of them busted within 1,500 bets or less.
I don't know if there is something about the selection, but Bayes gave a chart long ago about what means long term according the bet type we are using.
So in that chart for EC bets (18 numbers) indicates that roughly 5,500 bets will suffice in order to have some fairly clear conclusions.
Of course 5,500 bets are not the same for everything else, with more numbers in betting you will need less testing, the chart shows from 30 numbers down to 1 single number which requires the most testing.
You can check the attachment and use it as a guide for your testings.

The other method was betting on wheel sectors, according the last spun number bet it by including 5 neighbors from the left and 5 from the right for a total of 11 numbers bet.
If that bet fails the next should be again the last spun number with its 5 neighbors of both sides plus the previous 11 numbers for a total of 22 numbers bet, if you win on the first bet you have gained 25 units, if you win on the second bet you gain 3 units.
If you lose the second bet too, then you might want to place one final bet of 33 numbers with 11 units per number you'd break even, with 12 units per number you make some profit, thus 33 x 11 = 363 OR 33 x 12 = 396.

The total bank for 3 bets is 11+22+396= 429 units or 396 if the final 3rd bet would be with 11 units per number.
If some numbers would overlap by placing 5 numbers right and left of the last spun, then just expand the side of the sector which the last spun number was, for example;
1st bet on number 12 and its 5 neighbors from both sides and lose, next number is 19, if we would place 5 neighbors from both sides then the side which is number 0 would overlap with the previous numbers, so just bet the number 15 and the rest 9 numbers from the other side of number 19.

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Jake007

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2018, 06:42:31 PM »
This is excellent BlueAngel, thank you. With the 9 step progression you posted (1533 bankroll) your profit is a minimum of 1u. If you have a big enough bankroll (say 3066) you could increase your minimum profit to 6u with the progression... 2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512 ... essentially you are just removing the first bet of 1u and putting it at the end 512u bet keeping the 9 step progression. You'll make money twice as fast! More risk of course. Sorry... my mind is talking out loud. we should always look to reduce risk.

BlueAngel

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Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2018, 06:47:26 PM »
Thanks for the advice Jake, actually I expect someone to tell me if this was a fluke, plain luck, or maybe there is something about the selection.

How about the wheel sector bets, short and steep isn't it?!

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scepticus

Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2018, 07:04:06 PM »
What about using the second DS of the Dice idea ?Using the last DS then bet it's difference with 7 to chooseegIf last number was in DS 1 then bet DS 6 -1 + 6 =7 and vice- versaIf last number was in DS 2 then bet DS 5  and vice -versa
If last number was in DS 3 then bet DS 4 and vice -versa.

BlueAngel

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Re: DOUBLE DOZENS
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2018, 07:08:21 PM »
Where did you find this load of rubbish?!
Do you understand that I've a working selection from a person like Bayes, who has deep statistical and mathematical knowledge, not fallacies!
I didn't ask for changing the working selection!