Author Topic: Progression...An Understanding.  (Read 1388 times)

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MickyP

Progression...An Understanding.
« on: February 20, 2018, 08:33:03 PM »

The types and uses of progressions comes up in the majority of discussions on the forum. I have read through a number of discussions that attempt to deal specifically with the use of progressions.  Some slam the use of progressions, especially up as you lose progressions, while others defend the use of progressions as an essential tool to manage the game or session (I'm guilty of this). Some rely on flat betting only. The use of progressions depends on the method being played. The way I see it is that not all bet selections can be flat bet. An up as you lose progression  is used to increase the spin value of the window of prediction to try and "force a win". For example; betting on a dozen, you can expect a dozen to hit once in three spins so you set a three step Progressions based on that expectation. On a three spin loss your next level is not focused solely on a win because you also have include loss recovery in the equation.
When can an up as you lose progression produce positive results?
If your bet selection is efficient, is it not better to use an up as you win progression?

What is the actual function of a progression? MrPerfect made a statement that got me thinking about how I see progressions.

Progressions shouldn't be used to make money!!!    They are tools to amplify your win, not the tools to achieve it.... it's simply a dead end. 300 years people try, 300 years casinos prosper. 300 years of misery for punters.... They call it entertainment. ...........................
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 08:58:47 PM by kav »

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MickyP

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2018, 08:54:57 PM »
The reason why I started this thread is because of the hammering progressions get and believe it or not I understand the resentment. If you are an active player and your progression fails, it hurts your pocket.
The maths  should be a big red flag for anyone attempting a progression on a limited bankroll.
I may not like Real or Ken but I'd be stupid to ignore their ranting about progression. Scepticus is another hardball player that comes to mind. I think what they have to say about progressions must be put to the test and maybe we can all learn something.

TheGenner

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2018, 10:01:05 PM »
When you can regularly see a group of 9 numbers go AWOL for 30/40 spins, just remember those 9 numbers could be half of an EC. Now all of a sudden you are up against a 2/1 shot and only getting paid 1/1 on a win. Add a negative progression to that and all I can say is good luck!

Reyth

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2018, 10:06:55 PM »
I believe progressions are an indispensable part of any winning system and that they relate directly to every other part of that system.

However, I have been very impressed with Mr. J's/Pales' method of creating a high win rate and strong profits by flat betting.  I am trying to implement this betting method.

cht

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2018, 10:11:25 PM »
Ryeth,  can you provide the link to their methods pls. TQ

Reyth

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2018, 10:32:05 PM »
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 10:34:53 PM by Reyth »

mr j

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2018, 03:39:27 AM »
I could add a bit of psychology/goal setting to this. Dont you want a method that does not RELY on a progression?

Ken

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MickyP

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2018, 06:11:13 AM »
If that's a question posed to all members of the forum then I'm sure the answer would be yes but I can't speak for others.
If you are asking me personally I'd have to say no. If you had the intention of sharing you would do so without asking.
I'm not putting a feather in your cap by acknowledging your dislike for progressions.

Progressions are not tools of doom. The thread should cover the When, How and Why of progression use. As earlier stated, progressions are an integral part of a method of play. Is it wrong to use progressions....No,  it's not wrong. Preparation before play should be sound. If using a progression make sure you have sufficient funds to use the progression efficiently and effectively.
Any method of play should have a high hit rate or at least should perform to a minimum expectation value for the amount of numbers in the bet selection.

Reyth

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2018, 07:38:41 PM »
I think what Mr. J is saying here is directly related to a concept that Dr. Talos has mentioned where we "remove the option" to discover the solution.  So in this case, by attempting to create a system that wins flat betting, the system itself is made stronger.

If we start off with a progression it actually gives an advantage step to the casino.  Flat betting as the FIRST solution is more conservative and thus makes the system more secure by increasing the flexibility against variance.

Its possible to flat bet with a larger unit size too and use that as a "progression".

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cht

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2018, 11:33:13 PM »
2 points to note about progression -

1. Assume you use a 1/2/4 progression, what difference will it make if you use a 1/1/1 bet size ?

2. The use of progression is justified if the variance is known to be quantifiably limited.

Argus

Re: Progression...An Understanding.
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2018, 04:54:46 AM »
If you have a method of playing that consistently shows a profit let’s say after 100 spins, but that profit is not satisfactory considering the time you spend on the wheel, then you are left with one or two solutions. Either increase the bet size or manipulate a slight progression to equalize the number of bets compared to a profit that you think is acceptable. It’s only a tool that you use with a good flat bet system. If the system falls apart, either way you are going to get hurt.

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