### Author Topic: Building a system on finals.  (Read 8444 times)

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#### MickyP

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #75 on: September 14, 2018, 01:08:37 PM »
"Basically it's bias play for combination of numbers."....Interesting observation.

#### MrPerfect.

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #76 on: September 14, 2018, 07:37:06 PM »
There are shortcuts to bias play... they are ways to identify numbers that are " related" to specific sett of conditions. Normally any bias player has these shortcuts identified and tested . It's done to minimise required amount of data before playing.
However , bias player has deep understanding of physics of this phenomenon. Bias play without direct observations  ( tool of bias player) is possible,  but require longer data setts to determine relationship between numbers and groups of numbers that has tendency to hit together.
Systems by itself are just math methods to explore advantage provided by favorable bet selection.  They do require positive expectation to be effective.  No system will be worth of players time with negative bet selection. And majority of the systems will perform well if bet selection is positive.
I imagine that first system was born when random fellow observed real player in action and tried to do the same. All systems look like a hard trying to replicate what real player supposed to do.
Even red/ black thing has its merit. .. long ego red numbers were painted with color that contain lead. It was a reason to minimise bounce of ball producing higher frequency of stops ( at least it was a common believe at that time).

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#### MickyP

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #77 on: September 19, 2018, 10:25:24 AM »
"Systems by itself are just math methods to explore advantage provided by favorable bet selection.  They do require positive expectation to be effective.  No system will be worth of players time with negative bet selection. And majority of the systems will perform well if bet selection is positive." Quoted from MrPerfect above.

There is no better way to state the obvious as MrPerfect has done above. Well done Teacher! Positive expectation is what drives most, if not all systems. The waves I spoke of with this method are positive and negative waves. In a game with a limited amount of numbers in play it should be apparent that with practice you will be able to identify "potentially" positive waves. Betting is limited to these occasions. The more you learn to recognize the waves the easier the game becomes.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2018, 10:28:39 AM by MickyP »

#### MrPerfect.

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #78 on: September 19, 2018, 12:02:57 PM »
Thank you, Mickey. At least someone understand what to do there in roulette in general.
What normal adequate player does there is to attack picks on graph. There is nothing more to do there. It's not about stick to system no matter what, it's about results.  If system do not corresponding reality now, drop system, use other or wait till it does.
To attack picks on graph optimally is what systems are about. It's like trading... there are time frames ( sessions) required for advantage realise ( produce profit)... there is required session bank to bank game while advantage has a chance to realise... there are levels of a abuse in betting ( risk/ reward)...ets.
That's same thing AP does. Calculate chance of randomness of observed result, if statistically significant,  determine factors that may prejudice,  create playing model ( Base system), create betting model ( flexible / adjustable)... stick to system, monitor results.
Logic of proceedings is same, be it system player or AP, what differ is proper bet selection and understanding what to do/ how and why.

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#### mr j

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #79 on: September 19, 2018, 12:49:39 PM »
If your progression could change the math, the house would run you out, just like they do card counters.

#### MrPerfect.

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #80 on: September 19, 2018, 12:55:07 PM »
Where this " change the math" comes from? What is a big idea?

#### mr j

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #81 on: September 19, 2018, 12:59:19 PM »
"If your progression could change the math" >> Whats so tough about this? You dont have to agree with it but....not understand it?
CHANGE the math.

If you use a progression, does the *MATH* of the game change in your favor? Simple.

Ken

#### mr j

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #82 on: September 19, 2018, 01:01:24 PM »
Say its a 00 wheel, 5.26%.
You are a progression user. Does the % now drop to 3.2%?

#### MrPerfect.

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #83 on: September 19, 2018, 01:02:35 PM »
No. Progression does not change math. It change average bet. If bet selection is positive, proper progression- more money. If selection is negative or progression is not proper- less money.

#### mr j

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #84 on: September 19, 2018, 01:04:58 PM »
More money, less money what? Profit? Gross? Net? Hourly?
Try and keep up MrP

#### mr j

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #85 on: September 19, 2018, 01:16:01 PM »
No. Progression does not change math. It change average bet. If bet selection is positive, proper progression- more money. If selection is negative or progression is not proper- less money.

Thats not winning, thats maintaining. Big difference.

#### MickyP

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #86 on: September 19, 2018, 01:34:20 PM »
Progression is off topic here. Each player will use their own money management method.
The discussion is about when to bet... Pay attention in class or start another progression thread.

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#### MickyP

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #87 on: October 10, 2018, 05:46:52 PM »
As requested by Palestis I will give you a basic rundown of how I play my finals method.

How finals repeat in a clump and of how some finals will group together and dominate a short series of spins has been mentioned on the forum. I simply take advantage of this occurrence that is a lot more common than one would expect.

To link the finals to Trading, I see the 10 finals as ten trades, Always, only 10 trades to make a selection from. The numbers produced by the wheel is the trading platform and based on this platform I select what trade is best to invest in at a specific time. The trading window is limited to 7 spins.

There are a few tools I use in conjunction with information coming off the trading platform. The law of thirds, hot and cold numbers and temporary bias showing in favour of a specific wheel segment or number grouping on the wheel and felt.

I do not limit myself to making a decision based on a specific number of spins; example, within every 18 spin cycle. At the start of a game I will simply monitor the finals trades while I play other methods. I will keep a separate record for the two tables I will be "trading" on, continuously monitoring them to identify a possible target. This may take an hour or two but in this time I am able to analyse the trends of the tables I'm playing on. This opening analysis period is important and even if you see trends forming you must have some history to base your bets correctly on so only record and do not play. When you have sufficient history then you can proceed. When finals begin to clump, a final repeats within 5 spins I will bet on that final but not an overall unified bet of one unit each. I will place two units on the two numbers that have appeared (potentially hot numbers) and one unit on the remaining numbers (potentially cold numbers). If the same number has appeared twice I will check my records to see the showing of this final and I will base my bets on the overall performance of this final.

I only play two finals at a time to keep play simple. More than this complicates the record keeping. Although I monitor two tables I only play on one table at a time. Switching tables at a B/M casino is not always practical and I then have to decide what table will be better overall for me.

I select a final and play it for 7 spins then when a new opportunity come up I repeat the process. I've tried to keep the game simple so I can manage it and still have time to make a calculated decision.

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#### Mako

##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #88 on: October 10, 2018, 07:12:23 PM »
Nice Micky, good post, most players who win more than lose are constantly evaluating what's landing to modify what they're doing on the fly.

Extremely rare to see claims (let alone proof) of anyone playing 100% mechanically without reading conditions and adapting their strategy for said conditions.

I find Finals intriguing because I've never attempted anything in that area, yet I've seen and read of people doing well with them.  The "10/7" window you're using also seems ideal, can't see accuracy increasing by raising or lowering the evaluation/betting windows.

Palestis, how are you attacking Finals, something similar or are you using virtual losses after trigger events as you usually do?

Cheers to both of you.

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#### BlueAngel

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##### Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #89 on: October 10, 2018, 08:52:07 PM »
Finals are nothing more than 3-4 pockets around the wheel, we could bet a street or this group: 4,13,22,31 and have exactly the same probability.

There's nothing magical in how you associate those numbers in your head and relate your mentality to it in order to encourage yourself that what you are doing has merit.
All am saying is that in my point of view is very subjective.

If we were talking about 4 scattered pockets in comparison with 4 continuous wheel pockets that would have a difference.

If you cannot decide/know what to bet in 2 minutes then why you would in 20 minutes, if you cannot in 20 why you would in 2 hours??
Is there a specific sequence which you expect, or a specific total of missed spins, or hits which generates the illusion of advantage?

Like you've said and I agree is that sometimes something works and sometimes doesn't, you don't need a bunch of systems, just 2, your best and its opposite for when it doesn't.

After clearing this out the only thing which remains is the MM, when your best and its opposite are going head to head a mild negative progression would do well.

When either side dominates a mild positive would blast the house.
We don't have to overcomplicated it, common sense after all.