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Author Topic: Building a system on finals.  (Read 6610 times)

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Jesper

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2018, 01:59:50 PM »

Will be interesting to learn how you made your bet selection to play with the tests you've conducted.

I just took finale zero, it was no kind of rule in the selection, more than I took one below seven, making it a four number bet.
 

palestis

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2018, 04:50:11 PM »
There are also other combinations:
0-10-20-30
7-17-27     combined in 7/10, 17,20, 27/30 and 0 alone.

2-12-22-32
9-19-29      combined in 9/12, 19/22, 29/32/ and 2 alone.

1-11-21-31
8-18-28      combined in 8/11, 18/21, 28/31 and 1 alone.
 I like finals that can be combined in quads.
I think its a good idea to make a statistical research to determine how often (when you combine 4 finals), they show up in the quads vs. the splits.
For example if 1-2-8-9  is  to be played, try to determine the percentage of the results falling into the
8-9-11-12 and 28-29-3-132 quads, as opposed to 1/2, 18/21 and 19/32 splits.
If the statistics determine that the quads have an overwhelming majority of the hits, then you might only bet the quads, giving you the chance to bet economically and also use progression without running into dangerous levels.
You can also do something else.
Place more emphasis on the quads and use the splits as insurance. Like you can bet the 2 quads with $25,s and the 3 splits with $5's. A total of $65 bet.
if the splits show up you make $85.
But if the quads come much more frequently, you stand to win $200 (8x$25).
 
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MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2018, 08:12:17 PM »
Palestis, thanks for adding the other three combinations. That makes a total of eight possible combinations to work with on the two finals approach.

I also liked the idea of playing big on quads with the splits as insurance. The variables to using the finals if used at the right time could produce some good winnings.

I looked at the position of the finals on the wheel and they are all spread around the wheel. A combination of two finals will not cover more than two slots at any point on the wheel. This fact is actually a positive as the distribution is spread around the wheel and that I feel plays into the variance hand.

Now, taking the eight combinations of two finals each and using the first as a trigger, if the second appears on the next spin we automatically play the split mode for the final 8 spins. If the first and second spin do not make a pair we play them as normal to the 9th spin.
If we are only going to play the 8 combinations then we must qualify a pair before we start betting
I've been thinking a lot about the best possible entry point to playing the pairs. Is nine spins still the optimum number of spins to play? I will have to look at this again.
The entry point is vital before anything else can be confirmed. Any ideas?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2018, 08:14:09 PM by MickyP »
 

palestis

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2018, 12:08:41 AM »
The problem is that some finals can be combined with several other finals.
1 for example pairs with 4 but also with 8 and the 0.   2 pairs with the 5 and the 1 and the 9.
The question is which pairing will you chose? ( I assume from the prearranged list).
But the appearance of the first final I don't think it is necessarily a trigger, whether the second matching final comes immediately after or not.
Like all triggers there much be a reason to justify the starting of betting.
From my long experience in testing and playing finals, a trigger is when 3 finals are missing for about 12-13 spins and they can be combined as quads with another final, even if it is already on the score board. If not then you have 4 finals absent in 12-13 spins.
Like you I don't enjoy betting 4 finals or 14-16 numbers (depending if 7,8,9 is involved). But the success rate is hard to turn down. You can only lose if one or 2 finals start to stick. In that case you will lose 2-3 spins, but you will avoid a potential disaster. But in the next trigger you will recover.
Anomalies like this don't happen back to back.
Now to play 2-3 only is a much better deal as the proceeds are much higher.
But  for 2 finals it takes a better preparation and more patience.
You have to wait for the right conditions.
In the picture (in the blue frame),  the 0's are missing and there is only one 5 and one 6. But you have to wait until each appears one more time.
There are plenty of 1's and 4's and 2's.
 That's a good opportunity. If you wait a little. as soon as one of them shows up (5 was first), you start playing the 5's
Next the 0 shows up with 20. You start playing the 0's. (along with the 5's of course). 
Next 6 shows up with the 6. You start playing 0-5-6- finals.
Needless to say that the profit would've been impressive.
If you want to play 2 finals, whether you chose 0,5,or 0,6 or 5,6 you still would've made a big profit, even if there were some gaps between them.  The fact that you only play 8 numbers, makes a big difference when the 2 you play appear vey close to one another without long gaps.
That makes a big difference.
Now there is a temptation to continue playing those 3 finals for a while. But my preference is to stop as soon as I make a good profit. Then wait for another opportunity like this.
My suggestion is to do  a lot more testing, somewhere along these lines.
Eventually you will begin to notice patterns and repetitive behavior.  You will also notice potential red flags. I guarantee you that after a while you will know exactly what to do, under a variety of circumstances. 

 
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MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2018, 05:09:18 AM »
Thanks, I'll continue the testing and report my findings.
 

dobbelsteen

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2018, 02:05:19 PM »
Every final bet selection has the feature of a number bet selection. The problem is that the DTOP is very large. That means that all the trials have short run results. Short run results are unreliable for conclusions.
 
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MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2018, 03:18:37 PM »
Every final bet selection has the feature of a number bet selection. The problem is that the DTOP is very large. That means that all the trials have short run results. Short run results are unreliable for conclusions.

I had to read some of your posts to fully understand what you are trying to tell me. For the benefit of all thoso following this thread I'll break it down.
1. DTOP: Dobbelsteen Turn Over Point.
2. DTOP is the change over from short run to long run.
3. DTOP is about 120 spins.
4. Numbers bet selection with large DTOP: Betting on few numbers for an average of 120 spins.

The risk vs reward in the short run is what I'm looking at. I know I could get my butt kicked if I hit a bad streak of numbers that gives me back to losses. It is unpredictable, I agree but I do not plan to make an overnight killing. I am looking at ways to use the unpredictability to my favour.
Each game is 9 spins long. Do you calculate the DTOP using the criteria of the system you are testing or is it a general assessment based on the amount of numbers in play? I play between 6 and 8 numbers.
The way I understand DTOP is that the more numbers in play the smaller the DTOP at about 120 spins and the predictability thus more accurate. This can produce a long term winning system. BUT, a long term Winning system can be a short term (say 50 spins) looser.

How will DTOP affect a short run game? The start and end points are intermittent so we are not dealing with an indefinite number of consecutive spins. I know there will be losses but I will always be happy if the wins outweigh the losses.

I completed a test of 650 consecutive spins and recorded 108 wins to 10 losses. 63% of the wins occurred between one and four spins.  Only 3 games got to spin 9 for the win. The losses were 8%.
I have tested a lot and the numbers I've given you are within my average results of all tests conducted so far.

I appreciate your input Dobbelsteen and maybe you could make suggestions more pertinent to this specific system. Thanks.
 

MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2018, 07:28:04 PM »
What have I done with the pairing of the finals?

Palestis and I came up with 8 pairs of finals that when played can be converted into splits with one single unit on 4 pairs and two single units on one pair. I only played the 8 pairs for a total of 304 spins. I tracked the spins and as soon as I came across a pair I began betting. I managed 25 games; 21 won and 4 lost playing nine spins per game.

My conclusion about playing the pairs exclusively... way too slow!

Never-the-less it was an interesting test in that the results are pretty much in the ballpark of the win loss ratio of this method.

My conclusion overall on playing two finals at a time is as follows:

Playing two finals for nine spins per game has an above average to high hit rate with great returns. Keep each session to a maximum of ten games only. Two to three session a day is plenty of action for one day. There are no triggers or best entry points at this stage. You do not depend on past spins although it is wise to study them to identify trends. A red flag that I picked up studying  my losses is that they all had strong repeats of one or two other finals within the nine spins. But I have also won many games with strong repeating other finals in the nine spins. So is this a red flag to stop play and reset? You be the judge.

My intention was to create an easy to play hands on game that produced regular wins without having to wait for too many spins to begin play. The first spin is your marker or entry point. At a win or after nine spins you wait one spin to get your marker to commence play. It truly is a very simple system to play.

Unfortunately you can not flat bet this system so a progression is required. Use a nine step progression that works for you.

I have used live spin data to conduct my tests with but please do your own tests before you play with real money.

One thing I noticed is that after a hit there is normally a second and third hit within three to four spins. I'll look at this more closely.
 

MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2018, 12:14:16 PM »
I completed an interesting exercise in my quest to further understand the finals.
Work on 38 spins. Treat each final as a separate game so you are playing ten games in one 38 spin cycle. As soon as a final shows bet it for nine spins flat betting. You will end up playing several finals at the same time but the wins will keep you playing on. The aim is to hit each final once in 38 spins. With a hit that final is removed from the game. If a final only shows late in the game and will cut short your 9 spins then don't play it. The hit rate made me smile.

This was a random exercise but with some brainstorming it could lead to something. Any ideas?
 

palestis

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2018, 11:30:36 PM »
I don't think  I understand exactly what you mean.
Each number that shows up , do you play its finals for 38 spins or 9?
In the pic 17-28-15 came  in the first 3 spins:
Do you play the 7's then the 8's plus the 7's, then the 5's plus the 7-8?
Then 1 came and won immediately (You remove the 1's ). Then 22 came and won immediately. (you remove the 2's).
Then with 18 and 7 the 8's and 7's won, so you skip those  as well.
5 didn't show up so do you continue betting the 5's plus the 4's when the 24 came?
All the others have been removed as they won (some sooner some later).
Then you add the 9's when 29 came and it is immediately removed after it won in the next spin.
Then the 4's are removed as 4 came after 29-29.
From this point you only play the 5's since it hasn't shown up. All others have been started, then removed because they won.
Is that how you play it and test it?  Or am I missing something?
Nevertheless it looks interesting and with some tweaks it might have a great potential.
 

palestis

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2018, 12:05:01 AM »
I think you meant 9 bets for each final. That way 9 bets @4 numbers each final you get a cycle of 38 spins approx. But if it is 7-8-9 do you bet the finals for 12 spins as these 3 numbers only have 3 numbers instead of 4?
I was wondering if you can test another version of this system.
Instead of starting the finals as soon as their number shows up, you wait to lose 4-5 times (virtual loss). Then you bet them for 9 spins. Total of 14 bets. 5 virtual and 9 actual. If it shows up in the first 4-5 spins, it is a lost opportunity but not an actual loss.
You can also include the same final if it shows up again, whether or not it won. That way you take advantage of some finals that stick more than the others.
 

MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2018, 07:24:56 AM »
The tests I did on playing all appearing finals was a shot in the dark but the results surprised me so I thought I'd throw it into the mix and see if we can do something with it.

There are ten finals. Play each final as it appears for 9 spins then stop. All appearing finals are played for nine spins. The appearance of a final is your entry point, you start betting that final for 9 spins then stop. The game is 38 spins long. At spin 29 you do not play any new finals but finish play on the finals you are playing. You may miss opportuniis now and then but this is a safety net so you do not lose some of your winnings or bankroll or be tempted to play more than 38 spins.

In your example all ten finals appear within 29 spins. In the tests I've conducted there are normally one or two finals that do not show up in the 29 spins. In your example of the 10 finals played, 6 finals won and four lost.  The four that lost were:
Final 7. Appeared at spin 10.
Final 5 appeared at spin 16.
Final 0 did not appear again.
Final 6 appeared at spin 11.

Playing the finals for more spins is dangerous unless the game is contained in some way. Possibly reduce the number of spins per game or set a win and loss target to end the game at.

I'll test your other recommendations in the meantime.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2018, 07:28:21 AM by MickyP »
 

MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2018, 07:56:06 AM »

I was wondering if you can test another version of this system.
Instead of starting the finals as soon as their number shows up, you wait to lose 4-5 times (virtual loss). Then you bet them for 9 spins. Total of 14 bets. 5 virtual and 9 actual. If it shows up in the first 4-5 spins, it is a lost opportunity but not an actual loss.
You can also include the same final if it shows up again, whether or not it won. That way you take advantage of some finals that stick more than the others.

I looked at this in tests I have conducted and I can't seem to validate waiting for 4-5 virtual spins as the finals appear pretty close together. Extending play with a progression may salvage some losses. But I think targets in a game would be the better option.

I have looked at another way to play finals. Will post shortly.

 

MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #43 on: January 12, 2018, 09:14:04 AM »
"PLAYING FINALS ON SINGLE STREETS"

As rewarding as playing the finals can be, the risk of loss is ever present. The logic behind playing the finals on streets is that although the risk of loss is ever present, it is reduced due to the increased amount of numbers covered. But payout is also reduced.

To transfer a finals bet (3 or 4 single numbers) to a street bet is easy. Simply place the bet on the street that the final number is in. Example :
We are going to play final 4. Place one unit on street 4, 5, 6. One unit on street 13, 14 ,15. One unit on street 22, 23 ,34. And one unit on street 34, 35, 36. Add one unit after a loss and minus two units on a win.

If final zero is played the first bet covers 0, 1, 2, 3, then street 10, 11, 12, street 19, 20, 21, and street 28, 29, 30.
Finals 7, 8 and 9 are bet on 3 streets only.

Palestis, I played the first 38 numbers from the last example you posted and this is how it went.
11 games played in 38 spins.
Game 1. Hit on spin 2.
Game 2. Hit on spin 1
Game 3. Hit on spin 1
Game 4. Hit on spin 1.
Game 5. Hit on spin 6.
Game 6. Hit on spin 4.
Game 7. Hit on spin 2.
Game 8. Hit on spin 1.
Game 9. Hit on spin 2.
Game 10. Hit on spin 1
Game 11. Hit on spin. 3.

As you can see from the example above, the hits come quick. Do your own tests for peace of mind. Use a progression you are comfortable with. Set a realistic win goal per session. A fun easy way to use the finals as a basis for your bet selection. Let me know what you think.

 

MickyP

Re: Building a system on finals.
« Reply #44 on: January 12, 2018, 08:01:25 PM »
A GENERAL OBSERVATION ON REPEATING FINALS.

I ran a small test of 180 numbers and starting from spin one I work down the list until I get a repeating final and so on. I recorded 38 groups of finals with repeats at different stages. The highest number of spins to a repeat was seven. Here is the breakdown:
1 spin 3 hits
2 spins 2 hits
3 spins 14 hits
4 spins 9 hits
5 spins 6 hits
6 spins 1 hit
7 spins 3 hits.

This was an exercise simply for observation purposes. Very interesting outcomes. We have 28 out of 38 hits within four spins.

System testing continues...