Author Topic: Trading on the financial Market?  (Read 26861 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #120 on: October 27, 2018, 11:26:10 PM »
 I should have added to my last post that Penfold's book is free to download using  the link provided in this threadby Jake 700 Page 7
Thanks again Jake.
The following users thanked this post: Jake007, Geoffrey


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #121 on: October 28, 2018, 04:35:34 PM »
Glad to hear you enjoyed the read MickeyP.  About the reading, i hope it will have value for the readers. The way i see it, as mentioned before, i'd like to adress everything there is. You may look at is as an ABC about investing/trading. A complete guide if you will. where most books seem to specialise or talk about one specific area of trading or investing.

  I know here on forum i make regular spelling errors, that is because of not being in 'editor' modus, and  english not being my mother tongue. Rest assured. I wont come up with a book full of grammar mistakes.

 when i think of writing style. Although i think, or will try to be very complete, but asside the content, i'll try to explain things in a simple manner so complete novice people could understand is as well. I'm thinking the direction somehing like trading /investing / finance/ economics for dummies. But with a lot more detailed en more complete info than such books usually deliver.

 True, i dont claim wonders and miracles. I never will. What i do claim is , its working very good for me, and could benefit others. I stress could.  you could teach a group of people a blue print of 'your rules' what to do under certain curcumstances. There’ll always produce different outcomes, because in the end its not a system that makes the difference, it is the trader.  Also i mentioned before, everyone has the abbilty of learning to trade. That doesn't mean trading is right for you specifically. Therefor whatever system or strategy used, would end up failing, because trading just isn’t the right playground for you, even when you perfectly understand understand how it works. 

Thing is, what i hope the book will acomplish is traders to be thaught well, to have better understanding after they have read it, not only about trading itself but also what the importance and power is to have the abbility to make your own deccisions without being influenced. It is my believe that without this you'll get nowhere. To me that would feel  like you dont trade yourself, its not your own minde that let you make a specific trade. It's this guru, or that expert that convinced you to take an opportunity. 

 Do you see, what is wrong with this? You actually haven't learned to trade YOURSELF. what good could trading possibly do for you, if you dont even make your OWN decissions?? its a good tactic to blow up your first account imo. If you dont get out this cycle of thinking. You will fale.

 That is why i believe it is off the utmost importance the reach the level of complete independent trading. If all works out the way i think it would or should. The reader will know what type of trading he prefers, what markets he'll be a bit more comfortable, and will be able to tell the pro's and cons of the way i actually trade.

  With tis info you as a reader will perfectly be able to build you're own system/strategy that will most likely be different than my own. Which is PERFECTLY fine. Cause it's not the goal of just copying mine. You should build you're own. It is Yours. What is yours to build, would work better for you specificly than what i'm doing. That doesn't mean i wont explain mine. Could be a good startingpoint for all to adjust to your own preferences.

  At BlueAngel: I would add pressure too. Although this is just a personal thing. If i dont feel pressure, well, feels like something is off. When i go to the roulette table or about to make a trade. If i dont feel any kind of pressure, something is wrong. I personnaly like feeling pressure. It's when i excell. when i feel pushed, then its when i kinda work  to the best of my abilities.when there is no pressure, i'm just slacking around a bit. 

What the major trades concern , you are right. The biggest trades where the once that we call 'short' (leveraged).

 Soros aka the man who broke the national bank of england is an example of a huge short succesfull trade. the on a story based movie 'The big short' also falls in this category Paul Thudor Jones gained a lot when shorting the market in the 87 Crash. 

Have to agree of it sounding easy but in reality is like the hardest thing you'll ever try to achieve.   When you see the figures. 90% losing. When using pure logic, you would say, 'just stay away'  What i wonder with this high % losing money is, how many of that % went to the market well prepared? and i mean really well prepared, not the 'i think i'm prepared for it'. Although we never get our hands on these figures. I think it would explain the high % failing more easy.

 For the once claiming that stock market is a casino / gambling. I disagree. In my opinion gambling is what you do when you expose a risk you know you cant cover, but do it anyway, cause of 'you never know , could be it turn out alright. So in my dictionary a gamble is a gamble when you dont have a clue what you're doing. Or taking such high risks it is impossible to feel OK with That's a gamble.

   At sceps. The best book you've read, and you are implying this autor and myself seems to have a lot of common ground??? Well thank you. If that isn't a compliment, dont know what is.

 Sure have triggered my attention with this. Very well spotted in you second post, i've downloaded it and looked at the table of content. At first glance, It does indeed look like it could be a very interesting read.

  Almost forgot that list was on here. Sure have to thx Jake for that. Is a great contribution. Speaking of which. That list contains several high quality reads.

 I did already write my letter to santa, asking for that book hahaha, good thing you mentioned that list again.

  Do you recall i had several ideas (about me educating trading), and one of them i considered outrageously ambitious?   The book you suggested, is refering to it
« Last Edit: October 28, 2018, 04:54:33 PM by Geoffrey »
The following users thanked this post: scepticus, MickyP


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #122 on: October 30, 2018, 12:07:20 AM »
As i want more time to myself continue reading and writing, adapted my usual style (daytrade) in a swingtrade for once. Got myself in a short position last couple of days.
Intend to hold on to that position until somewhere between 10/11 till max half november

2 different trades.

 One representing 5 Euro a point (this one is down 190 points as of today)
Other one is 50 euro a point. (this one is down 114 points as of today)

Now i could close the position and take the profits. which would be above 6.5k

Most would've had done that already, but one of major rules is just to let your trade play out, instead of chickening out.

Perfect example of what letting your profits run, actually means. Screw the 2:1 or 3:1 risk/reward ratio. Dont go for endeless little jabs. Safe your breath and stamina. Stock market is a marathon not a sprint. When you hit, hit as hard as you can. If there is no space to hit hard. Safe your energy.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 12:11:23 AM by Geoffrey »


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #123 on: October 30, 2018, 06:47:02 AM »

 Geoffrey, I wonder since you seem very knowledgeable about the market what are your thoughts on "trend following' ?
Michael Covel's book I read years ago and thought it was such a eye opener. he mentioned the result of some of the most whealthy practitioner of "trend following' in his Novel, and showed some long term results on "holding to positions for a long period at times".
most fortunes got made it seems by hitting only a few 'home runs" and not taking profits too early.
something you were mentioning in your post, how we sometime too quickly like to take down profits instead of "letting it ride", one of the hardest thing to do i have to admit at times.



Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #124 on: November 01, 2018, 12:34:48 AM »

I know what you are refering to. I still consider it one of the best books on the subject. And i really have read a hell of a lot

About the trend following. As it is a basic principle i dont turn my back on it. It's pretty good way to go. That doesn't mean it's the only way to go. As a matter of fact, there are hundreds of ways to get around the stock market. There is no one single path/road to take to become succesfull at this. What you have to find out is, what is the most adopted to your personallity.

By this i mean, and this is gonna sound real psychofical i know , it's kinda a journey to get to know yourself. What kind a risks can you manage, willing to take. When you read about different types of trading, which one you feel most comforatble with (scalping, daytrading, swing trading, long term investing) this is a good starting point to define your trading strategy.

There are tons of possibilities of markets to trade on. Wich ones will you trade. As long as you dont know you prefere are tend to discard with solid reason. You have to know what the pro's and contra's of each are.
Most important thing is. Stop thinking your skill in technical analyisis is the most important. Every honest trader will back this message up. If you really want to learn. Focus on psychology.

Get the knowledge by reading excesively. After that develop your skill with practice. Apply what you have learned, you get better as you go. Although it's not the real deal yet (demo account) it wont be waisted. You learn a lot from that too.

As for the statement that there are traders there are traders that make their year with a couple of trades. It is true. This is directly related to the letting your wins ride. You admit it is hard to do, when basically is a simple principle isn't it?  Let say, those traders got 3 home runs , well first one will surve for washing away most of the acumulated loss, the second one for the remaining los and to get into profit. The third one serves as the jackpot of your year.

I was wrong about this in the beginning, i though pro traders where often on the right side. Well not quiet actually. Acurracy is not that important , still often is said that 6 times out of 10 is outstanding. Truth is, many pro's even dont get those figures. And it doesn't really matter anyone. What mathers is that if your avg wins excells your avg losses by 3 times. 33% accuracy is enough to break even.

That is why you often get told, if it were simple everybody could and would do it. Still 90% lose.
I'm not sure about this but i think (just personal opinion) this is due to 2 mains reasons.
1 Not appropriate preparations (you dont turn into a trader overnight) , reading a couple of books , couple of weeks backtesting on demo, simply put, wont cut it.

2 Not trusting the process. When you are unable to apply basic principles , you are not ready. Along with that comes sticking with you gameplan /trading plan. When you did your research and homework as you should've done. There is no reason for doubting. When you trade , you have to know exacttly why you are taking it. Not because you have a hunge, a good feeling, or the graph looks good.

not being able to let your winners ride is an example of not trusting the proces. Lets see, what is another example (i admit, i have done this one over and over again) you are in a trade, trying to let your trade ride. Before you entered the trade you've decided that a 3:1 reward/risk ratio is the target. When you hit that you get out.
Cause what happends very very VERY frequently??? You keep checking where it was going, did it go to 5:1 or even higher than that? Or did i do good to get out???

See what i mean. Your checking up on something that wont change the outcome anymore. You'll be acting like, i should have, would have, could have ...
This is also an example of not trusting the process.

Problem is , people dont care about process, they want money, and fast. what they dont understand is, trading is patience , discipline, dedication, not a tool to get rich quick.

Good results come with good process. thats what it's all about.

Focus on growing as a trader, take step by step forward. Dont think money, think i want to get good. And to get good be well aware of what it takes to get there. Work your way up untill that point. The results will follow.
Why is trading so hard? I'll answer that fair and square. Because succes in trading goes hand in hand to act in what is often against human nature.

Seems weird to say, but to actually do what you are told to do, you have to cut off all emotions. Kinda acting mechanical.

Sorry for the delayed answer. But i guess you got a lot more reading in return than you asked for :)

If any should be interested , i could tell how it all started for me in another post.

« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 12:41:58 AM by Geoffrey »
The following users thanked this post: ShadowBlue


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #125 on: November 02, 2018, 06:32:01 PM »
I have to agree to what others have said. One system or setup that works and made lots of money may not work at all for someone else because their minds think differently. They may close out a trade differently and not follow set rules. And then you try to point it out to them and they says the system fails... even though they arent following your pre-determined rule set.

What Ive learned... self taught but I would recommend taking the free yet extensive training class on BabyPips website. Its designed for forex trading but you could use the knowledge also for stocks and crypto. While taking the class they go into some detail about fundamental and technical analysis. Ive never been too keen on the fundamentals... everything might make sense but the stock could still go down. I gravitated to technical analysis using indicators and I scratched the surface of a lot of them. You will naturally gravitate to certain indicators that peak your interest or make sense to you. I would study and learn at least 10 indicators. Then, focus on mastering 3 of them. I mean MASTER them. Find out what works what doesnt. Learn to practice with online demo trading accounts. Keep practicing. I use multiple indicators to help me time my entry and exits.

So... learn the basics of trading with BabyPips free course, really learn 10 indicators, then master 3 of them.
The following users thanked this post: Geoffrey


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #126 on: November 16, 2018, 04:55:02 PM »
The Open University has  a FREE course on " Investment Risk " . Downloadable  from Kindle.
The following users thanked this post: Geoffrey


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #127 on: November 19, 2018, 04:12:40 PM »
A couple of days ago (15 nov) i closed of my swing trade. Resulting in 4.1 K, with an invested 500 euro. So a little over 8/1 reward versus risk ratio. At some point could've had 6.5 K, but that aint of much importance. Because whatever you try to do, you never actually time a trade to perfection. If i would have walked away couple of days sooner the result would have been a lot less. So actually turned out pretty well. Thats also an example of 2 things, stick to your plan (i said i would get out about halfway november), and let it run instead of being happy with the 2/1 of 3/1 ratio (which is considered good).

Who wouldn't be happy with 3.5 k profit in 3 weeks???

At Jake: Totally agree with first part of your post. A little less with the second. My personal idea form my own experience is that, TA isn't that important, i would say overvalued even.

Learning TA is good, to know how those indicators work, but if traders let depend there trading to what those indicators say, hmmm, i seriously doubt they will end up being in profit overtime.

Indiciators are made to work, but they dont work as they should on their own. So yeah its better to combine different indicators. On the other hand it has no use to combine 3 different 'trend indicators' cause they acutally all 'predict' the same. Understand that indicators are devided in different types. Focus on 1 indicator per type.

That is actually the only thing of importance about TA (understanding what those indicators do, and use and emply those that suit the way you prefer to trade)

I actually use a combo set a indicators when in doubt. But hardly do a trade because of the TA. I you cant be profitable by trading a 'naked chart' TA wont be the solution to turn it around.

The longer i trade, less trades i do per month, 2 years back it was around 30 something. Now sometimes is not even half that number. Reason is i only trade what i consider the best opportunities. If i dont see one, i dont 'force' one. THats's also reason why not depending on TA, dont need 'confirmation'. Because in fact, all it does is provide yourself with a false believe of safety
« Last Edit: November 19, 2018, 04:15:48 PM by Geoffrey »
The following users thanked this post: ShadowBlue


Re: Trading on the financial Market?
« Reply #128 on: November 20, 2018, 04:16:54 PM »
Well done, Geoff , a very good profit.

And the less trades the less  fees to pay .  Day traders must lose much of their profit by the fees alone.
As a  matter of interest . If the Big Guns use much the same software for their projections might it be possible to
anticipate their trades  ?