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Author Topic: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN  (Read 190244 times)

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malucas

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1305 on: September 06, 2019, 07:17:46 AM »
Hi palestis and everyone,
I’ve been following this discussion on your dozens system for some time and put different variations through testing with some really positive results. I had a couple of questions which I have put at the end as well.
So far I have completed approximately 6000 spins of testing using a single 0 RNG and have had a lot of success with the system – the worst I’ve experienced is a 4 back to back loses so far which were recoverable thanks to consistent early wins and the loss progressions.
After my testing, I’ve settled on one particular variation that was most profitable, which I’ll outline below if anyone is interested, my sequence is essentially a 9 spin sequence – 5 spins including VL to trigger betting on Y for 4 spins:
Trigger of 5 spins to bet : Z/X, Y, X, X, Z/X
Betting Sequence of 4 spins after trigger:
1, 1, 1.5, 2
2, 2, 3, 4
4, 4, 6, 8
8, 8, 12, 16
16, 16, 24, 32
* I only use the trigger YXX and bet on Y: Example 12, 23, 17 - I would play the first dozen
* Only Z or X can come before trigger; example YYXX is not played, only ZYXX or XYXX: Example 7, 12, 23, 17 would not be played.
* After successful trigger, example ZYXX, I play one VL spin – if the Y appears in the VL spin the trigger is abandoned and I wait for a new trigger. Example 36, 12, 23, 17 I would play the first dozen, however if after first VL spin result looks like 36, 12, 23, 17, 7 as an example, the trigger is abandoned and no betting commences.
* I abandon play on all of the initial red flags discussed, for example if multiples of one dozen or multiples of the trigger dozen appear before the trigger I wait for a new trigger with fresh numbers
* Triggers need to come from fresh numbers and can’t be made from previous spins or triggers
* When 0 appears I start with fresh numbers – for example if sequence is 17, 32, 0, 26 I’m not playing the second dozen, I wait for 3 new spins at least after the 0
* If 0 appears in VL spin after trigger that is fine, I continue to play trigger – example 36, 12, 23, 17 I’m playing the first dozen, if 0 comes on VL spin before betting, so  36, 12, 23, 17, 0, I begin betting sequence as 0 would still be a lost bet
* I don’t play columns, only dozens.
Essentially within a 9 spin span, you need Y to appear twice – once in trigger, then once in betting. While not mathematically applying an edge on the game, this puts probability at around 84.33% per sequence and goes higher still if you do encounter some back to back losses.
While the above can take time and lead to prolonged periods with no betting waiting for a trigger, that is fine for me as long as winning is at a high rate – I would prefer to win over a long time than lose over a short time.
I’ve begun using the system in Bricks and Mortar and it hasn’t lost yet – only 1 back to back loss which was easily recoverable.

I also play a simple 9 spin Black or Red Martingale at the same time while waiting for triggers – wait for 4 RRRR or 4 BBBB before betting a 5 bet progression on the opposite.
Again while not mathematically applying an edge on the game, this puts probability at around 99.74% per sequence.
Obviously it’s still a risk, we have all seen 10 or 11 B or R in a row at some point, but it puts probability in my favour and keeps the bank roll moving while I wait for dozen triggers.

My questions for everyone, is have you had positive or negative experiences in bricks and mortar using the roulette computers which are linked to a live spin?
I prefer to use them as I don’t like to roam between tables, it automatically keeps track of my bank roll and I don’t need to worry about chips. It also spins at twice the rate which reduces my down time.
It is still a live table in front of me being spun, so I don’t see that it would make a difference, but I wanted to get other people perspectives and opinions which might change my mind?

Thanks again for everyone’s input on palestis original post, it’s been a gold mine of information for testing.
 
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palestis

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1306 on: September 06, 2019, 07:30:27 AM »
What you are doing, Palestis, is called " Backfitting " and there is no Statistician who agrees with that approach .They actually warn us not to do that  so analysing  thousands of spins is pointless. Furthermore, stats need to be interpreted and  there is no guarantee that your interpretation is the right one . 
Scepticus I am not talking about testing thousands of spins.
I was talking about testing thousands of triggers.
To find thousands of TRIGGERS may require going thru hundreds of thousands of numbers.
But we are not interested in the raw numbers. We are interested in what the results are after a  triggers has formed.
In other words the question  becomes:
IF THIS CONDITION EXISTS what is the percentage of success  vs. the percentage of  failure if we take a certain action?
Statisticians use this procedure all the time in vital statistics,  life insurance, car insurance, medical science etc.
If I test 10.000 conditions (triggers), and 9.950 produce the  expected results that is important information, and I can manage my actions based on that information.   
Example:
In this particular system it has been found that the most common B2B losses (though very rare) is 4 lost B2B triggers.
I am sure if you play this system all the time there will be a time when you may encounter 5 B2B losses. Maybe in an extremely rare occasion 6.
However, if that was happening  frequently, it would've been observed already by the thousands of tests and actual play many players have gone thru.
You may wait for 4 B2B  VL's  and have a certain guarantee that you will have a hit in the next 2 triggers after the 4 B2B VL's.
But since that may require waiting all day to find such condition (and it may never come), you have to settle for a lesser number of VL's. Like 2 if you have a very strong B/R, or 3 if the B/R is somewhat limited.
And frankly if you had $50,000 B/R and the minimum you use is $5 you will never lose even if you came across 20 B2B losses, which will never happen in the next million years.
Results from testing many numbers of triggers, cannot be defied even due to the random nature of roulette results. Because aberrations from such results  would've been observed already.
Rare results do happen sometimes, but they are harmless if you stop in due time.

 
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kav

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Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1307 on: September 06, 2019, 07:51:52 AM »
malucas,
Thanks for your excellent post and welcome to the forum! You are one of the few people who can describe a roulette system clearly. It takes time and effort to do so. Congrats!

From your post what I don't understand is this: you write both:"the worst I’ve experienced is a 4 back to back loses so far" and then "it hasn’t lost yet – only 1 back to back loss which was easily recoverable"
You mean that you only lost one attack (of 4 bets)?
I find it strange in 6K spins to only lose once.
By back-to-back losses we mean consecutive losses or two or more 4-bet attacks.

As for your question, I don't have a strong opinion about the way you playing from electronic interface.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 12:49:16 AM by kav »
 

malucas

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1308 on: September 06, 2019, 08:21:47 AM »
Hi kav,

Sorry I read that back and realised it didn't make much sense - essentially during testing on an RNG the worst I experienced was 4 back to back losses, so 4 triggers over 4 progression lines totaling 16 bets.
I then hit during the 5th progression line to begin recovery.

However when playing at bricks and mortar the worst I've experienced is 2 back to losses, so 2 triggers over 2 progression lines totaling 8 bets.
I then hit during the 3rd progression to begin recovery.

When I say it hasn't lost, I should have said it hasn't completely used up my daily bank roll - being a fairly defensive system it allows for steady bankroll increases while you wait for the progression losses to inevitably come.

I plan to continue using this version of the system in bricks and mortar over the next few weeks on a live croupier connected wheel using the computers and will report back with how it goes or if I make adjustments.
Thanks again for all of the discussion and insights.
 
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scepticus

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1309 on: September 06, 2019, 04:03:55 PM »
Sceptics,  I don't think Rich is as stupid as the picture you just painted in your two posts above.

Please tell us about the guarantee locked into the lego blocks.
:D
Micky P.   YOU are the one who PROVED that the Nine Block does give a guarantee because all eventualities are catered for !

P.S.You still can't spell my username correctly ! :D
 

scepticus

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1310 on: September 06, 2019, 04:21:16 PM »
Palestis

Staisticians gather data  which they then " interpret " and there can be a number of " interpretations " of the SAME data .  If itwas as simple as you and some  others think  then statisticians would be playing roulette . Ask yourself " Why don't they  ?" I think you need to change tack .
 

palestis

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1311 on: September 06, 2019, 08:07:40 PM »
it's not like that.
The majority of the population don't know anything about roulette, better yet they don't care about roulette and casinos in general.
Just because here, a major part of our lives revolves around roulette, it doesn't mean that the rest of the population does the same. And that includes statisticians, math expert and physics experts.
They just don't care about casinos, just like 99% of the general public and if they happen to go to one a few times a year most likely they will try their luck in the slot machines.
                   Aside this, just because someone is a statistical expert it doesn't necessarily mean that he is blessed with the colossal amount of PATIENCE REQUIRED, to play a system the way we describe it here.
He will be bored to death and will leave the casino disgusted, if he is forced to play this way.
Millions of players know that waiting for as many VL's as possible is the answer to consistent winning,
but very very few practice it. This amount of patience  required is beyond what an ordinary human can endure.
That's the problem.
                                           As far as several interpretations  of the same data how does it apply in roulette?
If you test your 9 block system 10,000 times and you found it to have positive results 9000 times what other interpretation is there other than the conclusion that it has 90% success rate?
The only other interpretation is that it has 10% failure rate.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 08:13:10 PM by palestis »
 

NANNI

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1312 on: September 06, 2019, 10:00:36 PM »

Hi malucas,
I play in B&M Casino at a Touch Bet Terminal, (Roulette Computer), where the game is
transported from the live dealer table in the casino to the terminal.
I can control easily by running over to the room where the table is, to check if everything is correct.
It always was and I have complete confidence.
It is different with the air ball roulette machine, where the ball landing is influenced by air pressure after
the ball has been released. I have no confidence in these machines, as it is technically possible to cheat and
juridicially it is possible for the casino owner to cheat and get away free of charge.
I destroyed a complete bankroll of "How I play Palestis by Mako, and I dont believe it was a fair game.
regards and thanks
Nanni

 
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scepticus

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1313 on: September 07, 2019, 01:13:21 AM »
palestis
Statisticians work with prior stats. -  they have no need to  play. They could analyse your stats if you gave them.    "Different  interpretations of roulette abound. Bet after so many Reds / Blacks . Follow trends , etc..quite apart from your  own . All because of the fallacy that prior spins can be " interpreted " . 

" Millions of players know that waiting for as many VL's as possible is the answer to consistent winning,"Millions ? Really ? How do you know ?
" This amount of patience  required is beyond what an ordinary human can endure."  ? You are not an ordinary human ? That is obvious  but after a few  years you  seem to have changed  your strategy . 
 The nine blocks ?  As Micky P testified  it is a sound basis for  a realistic system . There is no need for tests when the maths are on your side . The only ( ONLY ?   ;D ) problem is the volatility of the winning  numbers . THAT is the real problem , not the HE .

i have been playng and thinking about the challenges of roulette for many years  so ,  while you may not agree, I am really trying to be helpful . Perhaps I don'tuse diplomatic language but a " critique " is different form " criticism ". 

 

scepticus

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1314 on: September 07, 2019, 01:18:32 AM »
NANNI
Did you consider that your system may be  the reason you lost ?
 

malucas

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1315 on: September 07, 2019, 02:29:06 AM »
Thanks Nanni,

I've started playing B&M on Rapid Roulette terminals, which like you say are basically a touch bet terminal connected to a live dealer table. It works well for me as it does 2 spins per minute which is fast compared to some of the packed tables.
I make sure I'm using one of the terminals which is right in front of the live dealer so I'm sure it is all legitimate - in my mind its fine as I can see everything that is going on, I just wasn't sure if others had different experiences or opinions on it?
I play in Australian B&M Casinos - I'm not sure if we have airball tables here? But after your comments and some others in the forum I think I'll steer clear from them and look a bit further into it.

In case anyone is interested also, I had another go at B&M last night using the dozen system variation I mention above, along with the B/R and O/E system mentioned above at the same time - after an hours play, so approximately 120 spins, I was in profit 22 units and didn't experience a full line progression loss on the dozens. On two occasions I made it to the 4th spin in my first progression, being the 4th bet spin after the trigger, but got a hit on the fourth. Example ZYXX - trigger to play the Y. Then Z(VL) - then I play a 4 progression spin that went loss, loss, loss, win - this happened on two occasions, all other triggers were won within the first 3 spins and I never lost a full trigger progression.
I'm still making adjustments as I review results when I play, I'll put some further results up and any variations I make once I'm a bit further down the track.
 

palestis

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1316 on: September 07, 2019, 09:13:59 AM »
juridicially it is possible for the casino owner to cheat and get away free of charge.
I destroyed a complete bankroll of "How I play Palestis by Mako, and I dont believe it was a fair game.
regards and thanks
Nanni
I hope this example will clarify some misconceptions about this system:
20-22-10-  30-25-18-  3-6-35-   5-17-4 are the numbers you see on the board. (20 is the oldest and 4 being the freshest number that just spun).
1st trigger 20-22-10        lost with 30-25-18
2nd trigger 30-25-18   lost with 3-6-35.
3rd trigger 3-6-35   lost with 5-17-4.
We now have 3 consecutive triggers that lost.
If you started playing from the 1st trigger you have lost 9 bets
If you just have observed this sequence on the score board you have 3 VL triggers that lost ($0 cost to you).
Personally I start playing now for real using 5-17-4 as a trigger.
Since 4 B2B losses are rare I only have 2  more triggers to play expecting a sure hit.
If there is no hit, I just broke the record and made it to 5 B2B losses, but I only lost 6 bet steps (not too terribly bad). Then I stop if there is no hit.
Then wait for a similar situation, and I doubt that I will break the B2B losing record again.
Now if you take a closer look
After the 1st trigger (20-22-10),  lost with 30-25-18 instead of using 30-25-18 as the next trigger, and you take 10-30-25 as the new trigger   you will see that it won in the second step when 3 came.
Therefore there is no loss virtual or real.
Both situation are fine depending on the conditions in the casino.
I stand up watching several roulettes at the same time.
So I use the 1st option described at the beginning to look for VL's.
Because  it's much easier in the eye to read backwards  numbers in groups of 3 in consecutive fashion to locate VL's.
If you sit in front of a roulette (real table or terminal), you can use the second option I just described to locate VL's. (that way you save time waiting for new numbers to spin).
Both options are correct  as long as they suit your playing situation.
But if you stand up and watch several roulettes and you have to back read 10 or more numbers, if you take into account in between numbers, it will get very confusing and you will certainly lose track.
Reading 3 numbers and then the next 3 and then the next 3 it's a lot easier in the eye to be in control.
But for certainty's sake I will wait till 3 VL's form, then I enter real play with real chips.
If you have a super big B/R and you use low value chips you don't have to use any VL's.
But the usual cause of failure of this system (or any other system), is running out the B/R if a bad run comes along.
Since most players do not have unlimited B/R, using as many  VL's as possible is the way to go.
There is no short cuts to consistent winning.
I know everybody wants to wrap up the session quickly  and go home with money if his pocket,
but so does the casino. They want to send you home without any money in your pocket.
The casino has only 1 way of playing. Spin numbers only.
The player has many playing options
How you play determines the winner.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 09:22:23 AM by palestis »
 
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malucas

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1317 on: September 07, 2019, 10:43:31 AM »

Hi palestis,

So you play using VL triggers rather than VL spins after a trigger for example?
I really like that idea; like you say, If the worst we have seen in testing data is 4 back to back trigger losses, using VL on loss triggers before betting reduces that probability.

From your example numbers, as I only play the YXX trigger, the only trigger I would play is the 10, 30, 25 trigger for the first dozen. I then VL the next spin, being 18, and would bet the 3, 6, 35, 5 which would win on first spin on number 3. Then wait for a fresh trigger.
But I might go back through my test spins to see if using VL on triggers reduces the number of consecutive back to backs.
Thanks again for in-depth information and testing.
 

palestis

Re: NEW SYSTEM: SINGLE DOZEN
« Reply #1318 on: September 07, 2019, 11:11:41 PM »
Yes I always meant entire trigger VL's. (that is 3 bets after the trigger).
So when we say 2 VL's it is actually 6 betting steps, coming from 2 different consecutive triggers.
You only play YXX trigger for 3 steps. ( after the 1st being VL)  The YXX trigger is the best out of the 3 choices, because the Y Dozen already didn't  show up 2 times  and to lose that way the Y dozen has to disappear for 7 spins.
Because since you play another 3 betting steps (4rd to 6th and the XX is considered 2 VL  steps, plus one more VL step after the trigger) you win only in that  range.
Though a dozen missing for 7 spins is neither rare or unusual, it's much more rare to happen B2B.
I just haven't tested this situation where you only take the YXX trigger and play it for 4 steps instead of 3.
I am sure you have seen the trigger winning in the first step that you play virtually and lost the opportunity. But 4 progressive steps with a higher valued chip can run into a lot of money if they lost.
I assume that YXX plus 4 steps must have a rare 3 B2B loss limit (that is 3 consecutive YXX triggers at 4 steps each).
I aim for 3 VL triggers, but if I see (reading backwards)  something like 1-5-20  30-25-4  13-21-35
24-10  it is actually 2.75 VL's and a playable situation.
It doesn't really have to be 3 entire trigger VL's with all 3 steps in the last trigger.
It can be 2 VL triggers and 1 or 2 steps after the 3 trigger.
Or you may come across a board that already has 3 VL trigger plus 2 steps after the 4th trigger.
So you only need 1 more step to bet before you run into the 4 B2B losses.
And still have plenty of unused B/R to go into a 5th trigger or even into the 6th .
You never know what you will come across looking at many score boards.
Where sitting in one roulette table  or one terminal you can only wait till what you are looking for happens.
Standing and observing many tables you may come across ready made situations that are hard to pass by, prompting to bet a much higher valued chip. And hopefully the score board doesn't miss recording a number.
But going to the casino often you will eventually find out if a board makes mistakes.

« Last Edit: September 07, 2019, 11:21:01 PM by palestis »
 
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