# Roulette Life Forum

## Roulette Forum => Roulette Systems => Topic started by: Jesper on July 04, 2019, 11:26:45 AM

Title: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 04, 2019, 11:26:45 AM
The  idea of chose a target number and bet a few chances  beside to get hits with lower payout is a common way i play. On NOZ I can start with near all numbers.  There are fair payout on NOZ and there are even single and double zero wheels which pay fair on some bets, and pay back outside bets if zero hits. On those wheels the outside bets should be used if possible.

I did well using four corner bet in the middle col, one in each corner. That is nine number covered. On a hit we add a chip at the location which hit, and play until we get a profit. If the target number hit, and we are back, we add to the number five units, i.e., one on each corner and one straight up.   The sessions use to run witout heavy swing down and up. The stop loss is to the player to judge. I got winning on every trial, but as any way we play, we can lose. I do not say it is "allways winning", but on a HA of zero, it is the variance only.

I recall a thread there Reyth used two corners in six numbers, but the progression was negative.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 04, 2019, 09:11:47 PM
I did well using four corner bet in the middle col, one in each corner. That is nine number covered.

I do not understand the red, when the bolded is 16 numbers plus 4 numbers = 20 numbers.  For example:

Corner 1: 0,1,2,3  SU: 2
Corner 2: 4,5,7,8 SU: 8
Corner 3: 11,12,14,15 SU: 15
Corner 4: 16,17,19,20 SU: 20

is 20 numbers (or 16)?

What am I misunderstanding?

Thanks. :)

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 05, 2019, 02:51:57 AM
It is nine numbers, I bet allways a number in the second col.  If I chose 17 I bet  number   15 to 19  four corners on 17.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 05, 2019, 03:13:21 AM
Aha!  I get it.  Thanks! :D

I like the idea of a positive progression.  I would like to know the drawdowns you discover and the minimum bank balance you would recommend. :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 05, 2019, 05:08:44 AM
I play with rather  large bank, in units, but more modest in money.  0.1 Euro chips, and then 5000 of them.  Most of the time we win while 10 to 40 chips as the largest drawdown, but it is no limit, in a RFH  it can happen we just dive, and decide to stop. I have not yet using this method stop because of big loss, but stop after a hit which never return plus. I.e. start over the progression.  On a fast on line wheel, the speed is high, and  an Euro a session plus, or even less adds up. It has been bets of about 100 chips. Sometimes I gain 20 Euro, as I do not allways restart on first plus rather press it for some more hits, and if it become true, the winning is rapid up.  We can as in all play meet a session which "never" win, and lose high. That is the reason I have small stakes, and a large in number of chips bankroll, which will not harm too much if it should be lost.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 05, 2019, 07:21:08 AM
Very interesting!!

There is this guy galled something like "OnlineRouletteGambler" that would love your approach, I am sure.  He plays a similar method but always negative progression.

I think I will practice this for fun! :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 05, 2019, 08:30:22 AM
Wow!  I doubled my balance in about 30 spins!

I spun a few times until the first number out in the middle column other than the number 2 and it was 11.  I started playing with \$.25 with \$170 balance and got 3 total hits on 11; the last hit was \$86.25 (345 units)!!

I just kept pressing without resetting.

I like this kind of positive progression! :D

I'm thinking that any time you have well performing numbers that are connected, this strategy can be used...

0- 19  19 1- 16  16 2- 20  20 3- 15  15 4- 28  28 5- 22  22 6- 23  23 7- 18  18 8- 25  25 9- 17  17 10- 17  17 11- 19  19 12- 26  26 13- 22  22 14- 22  22 15- 19  19 16- 20  20 17- 16  16 18- 20  20 19- 20  20 20- 19  19 21- 18  18 22- 11  11 23- 21  21 24- 30  30 25- 15  15 26- 25  25 27- 15  15 28- 22  22 29- 16  16 30- 23  23 31- 18  18 32- 12  12 33- 20  20 34- 24  24 35- 15  15 36- 18  18

Here we have 14 with 22 hits, 13 with 22 hits, 12 with 26 hits and 11 with 19 hits; not the hottest section on the board but a good combined hit rate, playing off of 14.

This would be the idea for the full position but what about a partial position?  The hottest number is 24 and so what if we did the 23-24 split and the left corners covering 20 and 26?

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6317)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 05, 2019, 10:24:00 AM
You can change the method, and if you are at believe of hot numbers it is OK. A success in a short run is common, so take care.  I have got about 10000 spins and won. It is possible you can do the same, but it is not likely. The method works only if random happens to suit.  The method is anyhow simple and better than a lot of complicated  voodoo methods common here.  If you have assess to NOZ try!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 05, 2019, 03:08:35 PM
I am still winning, and not few, using the method. BUT be aware if I win you can lose, as any method we can lose or win.  My plus is 23986 units (SEK 1, or 0,1 Euro)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 05, 2019, 04:04:24 PM
Jesper, you choose in the middle column numbers to bet randomly or with your own pattern?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 05, 2019, 04:12:48 PM
I take a number, whitout any special selection, just pick.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 05, 2019, 06:33:14 PM
Just to clarify if I played it wrong or well, sorry for my questions.

I choosed number 5, so I palyed 1-5, 4-8, 2-6, 5-9 coners with 1-1 units each. After few spins 4 come, so I must add 1 units on corners 4-8 and 1-5 ? Then 3 comed and I must add +1 chips on 2-6 and 5-9? Or not ? I had now 3 units on 5 and 2-2 on each corners, than after 10 spins 5 came, and I was up +50 units. Then I raised +1 for the straght number+corners, and after 3 spins I had a hit so I closed the door with +62 units.

This is a normal play was ?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 05, 2019, 07:55:44 PM
Looks like you do as I do!  62+ is  good!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 05, 2019, 11:11:24 PM
hahah, so much fun! :D

my "system" suite the permanents.

What's this??
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 05, 2019, 11:34:58 PM
hahah, so much fun! :D

my "system" suite the permanents.

What's this??

Not so funny when the main numebr not get a hit after so many spins, just the corners sometimes  :(
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 05, 2019, 11:55:10 PM
The corner hits are like an investment in our future because if they are hot, they will continue to maintain our balance and increase investments on the main number until it hits.  Its hard to have 9 numbers sleeping for very long all at once but if we can somehow handle 54 misses, we will survive.

I think a good strategy would be to count complete misses and if we receive 7 of them in a row, to start flat betting again?  Or, its possible that we could reduce all chips by 1/2?

At the start, if we receive 54 misses, we will be down 270 units.  So a bare minimum starting bankroll should be 600 units; I would feel even better with 850 units.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 06, 2019, 01:02:35 AM
Actually, after 7 misses, we could notate our chip levels and flat bet until a win, restore the chip levels, raising the hit number by one.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 06, 2019, 05:42:16 AM
I had to do  178 spins to end the last session. The bets were  36 units, and that was not any problem. If the bets slowly rise it is a sign of hits, but not enough for the time. A hit in the target use to pay off.  I should be more worry if I got 178 spins and still had four chips on the table.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 07, 2019, 04:04:21 AM
The key here is starting the progression over when it has risen too high but not high enough to fully recover.  We win extremely well when our number makes even a modest appearance and so its easy to grind back a smaller amount rather than risk a huge amount when our number hasn't paid us fully.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 09, 2019, 07:57:00 AM
You have for sure heard "All staking plans are useless", and it has some points.  I was in a real bad run, there the bet went up to 100 Euro the two last, but they were hits. I went total over 200 spins.  It was not that I never hit, but the hits, were just adding to the stakes, but not to come fully  back.   I would not survive if the hits were the same, but in the "wrong" order.  The wheel has allways a way to disturb.  With all of  this spins the session ended with just a few plus.

I was looking back and saw, if I had a stop loss any time, it would not help, the last two spins were needed.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 09, 2019, 10:05:36 AM
Of course it would have helped because it would have kept the expenses down as you continued to spin waiting for the number to come back?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 09, 2019, 10:18:06 AM
Probably not this time, if I have reduced the bets just before the double hit, I have had a longer way to go.  Reducing the bets after win looks OK. The play must be given a chance to recover.   That's the reason for example some grinder system which aim for just one unit, will fail, even if it fail seldom, it has no recover power.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 09, 2019, 10:45:04 AM
Here is a quick video with a monitor I made:

http://srecorder.com/s/7icd
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 09, 2019, 09:11:09 PM
Do you ever chip up to recover?

Do you care about when you close the casino to start a new session?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 10, 2019, 07:21:27 AM
I will begin play testing this method, monitor attached.

The first row across the top, shows the number of spins (white), expectation for a single number to hit (purple), the bet selected (green) and the debt (red).

The total number of hits accrued in the session for each number is displayed on the pixel-felt, in the center; if the number is hitting above expectation, it will be displayed in red with yellow highlighting.

The first set of columns shows each Main bet in cyan, the total number of accrued hits on all support numbers (all the corners/double corners) in white and the total number of spins since each Main selection has hit, in red.

In this state the following commands are available:

r = reset the monitor to a blank slate

b = enter a bet selection.  Name it by the Main number, which are the numbers in the center column: 5,8,11,14,17,20,23,26,29,32 (10 possible bets).  If you enter -1, then the bet selection will be reset to "none" (-1); debt will cease accruing and hits will not be accepted.

Once b is activated (a bet selection is chosen), that Main bet will be highlighted in white in the first column.  Two more columns will appear, showing each number of the bet selection in yellow (magenta for the main number), the number of spins of gapping for each number in red and the payout for each number in green (with a \$).  Even though there is a dollar sign, the monitor calculates everything in units and it is up to the user to simply know their unit size; if your unit size is \$5 and the monitor displays a debt/payout of 10, you know that it means \$50.

The third column will show the total number of chips to be placed in each position.  There are 5 total bets: CN (center), LL (lower left), UL (upper left), UR (upper right), LR (lower right); these bets are identified by the numbers 1-5 from the top down -- bet 1 is CN, bet 2 is LL etc.

The following commands are then available:

[RETURN]/Enter = toggle the green INCREMENT to a red DECREMENT and vice versa.
1-5 = hitting the numbers 1 through 5 on the keyboard will augment the chips based on the above toggle.  The payout amounts (in the second set of columns) will change to reflect the new chip levels.  NOTE: It is not recommended to DECREMENT the chip levels to a negative amount, the casino doesn't allow that! XD
0 = reset all chips to 1 unit

The monitor will automatically add chips when a hit is obtained (according to the rules of Jesper's system).  Use the above commands to make any additional changes.

The purpose of this software is to raise our awareness of when a section of the board is heating up or going cold & how deeply our debt has run against the payouts we will receive.  The more we can be consciously aware of what is happening in the game, the better choices we can make to survive the worst times.  The software also assists us in making a quality bet selection by indicating hot areas of the pixel-felt.

If you are receiving a "Missing DLL" error, you need to download the editor HERE (http://qb64.net/) and place the program files into the qb64 folder. Then you can run Jesper_Mon.exe by double clicking it (inside the qb64 folder).

Finally, I did a surface pass and eliminated several bugs but some could still exist.  Just post them here and I will correct them.  Thanks! :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 10, 2019, 09:08:31 AM
OK!  I just logged my second test session and now have 364 units of profit!

This second session was "fully informed" because I was using the monitor.  I was able to notice a few things that helped my decision making:

1) My Main number was hitting as the hottest, but another section of the board had better support hits
2) At a certain point my chip configuration became "inefficient", where some chips would pay -1 or 0
3) I could tell that my Main selection and Support eventually became the strongest on the board, which gave me great confidence to continue and not "cut and run"
4) There is a risk:reward ratio that we can easily calculate and I noticed when it started to go slightly downward

Number 1 influenced me to reset my chip levels on spin 36 because I wasn't sure if it would be safe to risk raised amounts if my Support continued to sleep.  So I decided to reset the chips to see what happens with the support.

I also reset my chips on two occasions because of Number 2.

Hey, when you are in the position indicated by Number 3, YOU ARE IT!  I mean we simply have to continue.

Number 4 has inspired me to make a total function for the chip amounts so I don't have to keep calculating it in my head and weighing it against the payout of the main number.

Now that I am typing this, I think that if the chips pay 0 or a negative amount, that it should be colored in red to indicate the inefficiency.

I hit my session goal of 100 units without my Main number hitting for the final time and I quit with my chips at:

CN: 1
LL: 4
UL: 5
UR: 4
LR: 5

Sure, a case can be made that this is the ideal situation to keep playing but I DID hit my session goal.  Are session profit goals harmful?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 10, 2019, 10:10:52 AM
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 10, 2019, 10:18:11 AM
Right and the Main number hit 3 times as well and was second hottest of all center column numbers (Main numbers).  The top Main number was the adjacent one to my Main Number and so it helped to pay me into profit and I didn't need to wait for the Main number to hit my goal. :)

The reason why CN is at 1 is because I reset my chips 3 times along the way!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 10, 2019, 11:41:36 AM
Too many main number...what? 🙂 Honestly, Idont understand your play Third 😄
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 10, 2019, 04:10:50 PM
::) I never check youtube roulette, they use to be crap. I want  steady proof, which youtube  do not give,  There are just a kind of "Besserwisser".
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 10, 2019, 09:32:56 PM
We only play 1 Main number but there are 10 of them: 5,8,11,14,17,20, etc.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: scepticus on July 10, 2019, 11:29:43 PM
I was looking back and saw, if I had a stop loss any time, it would not help, the last two spins were needed
Jesper
Right  On , Jesper.  . If the bankroll you take to the table is calculated then you must be prepared to lose all of it !
THAT is your stop- loss .
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 11, 2019, 01:36:57 AM
Its not a stop loss, its a bet reduction to lock in profits.  Its possibly the most powerful tool (maybe the only tool) that we have to succeed.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 11, 2019, 06:00:57 AM
Version 1.121 released!

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6350)

The two major new features are a graph display of the debt and dark red numbers on the main display to show total gapping.  These features are so important that I felt the need to release them as soon as they were finished and tested.

To access the graph, you simply press the spacebar at any time.  To go back to the main screen, just hit any key (while keeping the mouse still and unclicked).

The purpose of the graph is to help us to visualize when we should lower the chips to lock in profits.  This is the only safe way to combat the "losing mode" when our debt has risen too high to fully recover with a hit on the Main number.

Losing cycles will run in alternating stages of loss and recovery and in order to keep from endangering the bankroll, we need to lock in recovery profits at a "high recovery level"; hence the purpose of the chart, so we can see what our recovery looks like, versus previous recoveries.

On the main screen now there are dark red numbers that indicate total gapping for each entire 9 number selection.  These numbers are extremely powerful for anticipating hits on our chosen selection in the near future.  Here are the statistics associated with these numbers:

Code: [Select]
` 0 / 0 / 1 /.000 0 / 0 / 2 /.000 0 / 0 / 3 /.000 0 / 0 / 4 /.000 0 / 0 / 5 /.000 2 / 2 / 6 /.000 0 / 2 / 7 /.000 0 / 2 / 8 /.000 0 / 2 / 9 /.000 0 / 2 / 10 /.000 0 / 2 / 11 /.000 1 / 3 / 12 /.000 1 / 4 / 13 /.000 1 / 5 / 14 /.000 4 / 9 / 15 /.000 8 / 17 / 16 /.000 4 / 21 / 17 /.000 2 / 23 / 18 /.000 2 / 25 / 19 /.000 7 / 32 / 20 /.000 11 / 43 / 21 /.000 9 / 52 / 22 /.000 12 / 64 / 23 /.000 24 / 88 / 24 /.000 21 / 109 / 25 /.000 17 / 126 / 26 /.000 22 / 148 / 27 /.000 25 / 173 / 28 /.000 42 / 215 / 29 /.000 34 / 249 / 30 /.000 33 / 282 / 31 /.000 57 / 339 / 32 /.000 58 / 397 / 33 /.000 53 / 450 / 34 /.000 64 / 514 / 35 /.000 67 / 581 / 36 /.000 81 / 662 / 37 /.000 80 / 742 / 38 /.000 104 / 846 / 39 /.000 117 / 963 / 40 /.000 131 / 1094 / 41 /.000 134 / 1228 / 42 /.000 140 / 1368 / 43 /.000 152 / 1520 / 44 /.000 160 / 1680 / 45 /.000 196 / 1876 / 46 /.000 209 / 2085 / 47 /.001 219 / 2304 / 48 /.001 217 / 2521 / 49 /.001 258 / 2779 / 50 /.001 308 / 3087 / 51 /.001 334 / 3421 / 52 /.001 351 / 3772 / 53 /.001 340 / 4112 / 54 /.001 434 / 4546 / 55 /.001 451 / 4997 / 56 /.001 458 / 5455 / 57 /.001 488 / 5943 / 58 /.002 548 / 6491 / 59 /.002 587 / 7078 / 60 /.002 601 / 7679 / 61 /.002 652 / 8331 / 62 /.002 699 / 9030 / 63 /.002 749 / 9779 / 64 /.003 781 / 10560 / 65 /.003 831 / 11391 / 66 /.003 899 / 12290 / 67 /.003 947 / 13237 / 68 /.003 969 / 14206 / 69 /.004 1007 / 15213 / 70 /.004 1155 / 16368 / 71 /.004 1094 / 17462 / 72 /.004 1256 / 18718 / 73 /.005 1223 / 19941 / 74 /.005 1320 / 21261 / 75 /.005 1391 / 22652 / 76 /.006 1466 / 24118 / 77 /.006 1647 / 25765 / 78 /.007 1642 / 27407 / 79 /.007 1793 / 29200 / 80 /.008 1735 / 30935 / 81 /.008 1870 / 32805 / 82 /.008 1999 / 34804 / 83 /.009 2078 / 36882 / 84 /.009 2128 / 39010 / 85 /.010 2246 / 41256 / 86 /.011 2329 / 43585 / 87 /.011 2434 / 46019 / 88 /.012 2527 / 48546 / 89 /.012 2631 / 51177 / 90 /.013 2767 / 53944 / 91 /.014 2870 / 56814 / 92 /.015 2972 / 59786 / 93 /.015 3003 / 62789 / 94 /.016 3170 / 65959 / 95 /.017 3213 / 69172 / 96 /.018 3408 / 72580 / 97 /.019 3453 / 76033 / 98 /.020 3704 / 79737 / 99 /.020 3876 / 83613 / 100 /.021 3980 / 87593 / 101 /.023 4073 / 91666 / 102 /.024 4250 / 95916 / 103 /.025 4308 / 100224 / 104 /.026 4510 / 104734 / 105 /.027 4684 / 109418 / 106 /.028 4728 / 114146 / 107 /.029 4866 / 119012 / 108 /.031 4943 / 123955 / 109 /.032 5102 / 129057 / 110 /.033 5347 / 134404 / 111 /.035 5437 / 139841 / 112 /.036 5625 / 145466 / 113 /.037 5733 / 151199 / 114 /.039 5890 / 157089 / 115 /.040 6041 / 163130 / 116 /.042 6174 / 169304 / 117 /.044 6419 / 175723 / 118 /.045 6528 / 182251 / 119 /.047 6607 / 188858 / 120 /.049 6947 / 195805 / 121 /.050 7021 / 202826 / 122 /.052 7161 / 209987 / 123 /.054 7308 / 217295 / 124 /.056 7487 / 224782 / 125 /.058 7524 / 232306 / 126 /.060 7888 / 240194 / 127 /.062 7822 / 248016 / 128 /.064 7973 / 255989 / 129 /.066 8319 / 264308 / 130 /.068 8428 / 272736 / 131 /.070 8800 / 281536 / 132 /.072 8924 / 290460 / 133 /.075 8831 / 299291 / 134 /.077 9100 / 308391 / 135 /.079 9298 / 317689 / 136 /.082 9425 / 327114 / 137 /.084 9774 / 336888 / 138 /.087 9913 / 346801 / 139 /.089 9910 / 356711 / 140 /.092 10125 / 366836 / 141 /.094 10351 / 377187 / 142 /.097 10419 / 387606 / 143 /.100 10657 / 398263 / 144 /.102 10761 / 409024 / 145 /.105 11137 / 420161 / 146 /.108 11183 / 431344 / 147 /.111 11326 / 442670 / 148 /.114 11275 / 453945 / 149 /.117 11503 / 465448 / 150 /.120 11702 / 477150 / 151 /.123 11875 / 489025 / 152 /.126 11964 / 500989 / 153 /.129 12345 / 513334 / 154 /.132 12482 / 525816 / 155 /.135 12514 / 538330 / 156 /.138 12552 / 550882 / 157 /.142 13014 / 563896 / 158 /.145 13073 / 576969 / 159 /.148 13183 / 590152 / 160 /.152 13295 / 603447 / 161 /.155 13445 / 616892 / 162 /.159 13382 / 630274 / 163 /.162 13853 / 644127 / 164 /.166 13780 / 657907 / 165 /.169 13833 / 671740 / 166 /.173 14177 / 685917 / 167 /.176 14264 / 700181 / 168 /.180 14446 / 714627 / 169 /.184 14610 / 729237 / 170 /.187 14586 / 743823 / 171 /.191 14669 / 758492 / 172 /.195 14953 / 773445 / 173 /.199 15182 / 788627 / 174 /.203 15207 / 803834 / 175 /.207 15131 / 818965 / 176 /.210 15549 / 834514 / 177 /.214 15410 / 849924 / 178 /.218 15771 / 865695 / 179 /.222 15757 / 881452 / 180 /.227 15636 / 897088 / 181 /.231 15834 / 912922 / 182 /.235 15843 / 928765 / 183 /.239 16090 / 944855 / 184 /.243 16061 / 960916 / 185 /.247 16084 / 977000 / 186 /.251 16454 / 993454 / 187 /.255 16290 / 1009744 / 188 /.259 16618 / 1026362 / 189 /.264 16501 / 1042863 / 190 /.268 16684 / 1059547 / 191 /.272 16873 / 1076420 / 192 /.277 16784 / 1093204 / 193 /.281 17176 / 1110380 / 194 /.285 16955 / 1127335 / 195 /.290 17155 / 1144490 / 196 /.294 17243 / 1161733 / 197 /.299 17109 / 1178842 / 198 /.303 17322 / 1196164 / 199 /.307 17361 / 1213525 / 200 /.312 17348 / 1230873 / 201 /.316 17293 / 1248166 / 202 /.321 17337 / 1265503 / 203 /.325 17479 / 1282982 / 204 /.330 17498 / 1300480 / 205 /.334 17565 / 1318045 / 206 /.339 17711 / 1335756 / 207 /.343 17677 / 1353433 / 208 /.348 17581 / 1371014 / 209 /.352 18174 / 1389188 / 210 /.357 17745 / 1406933 / 211 /.362 17895 / 1424828 / 212 /.366 17924 / 1442752 / 213 /.371 18046 / 1460798 / 214 /.375 17954 / 1478752 / 215 /.380 17827 / 1496579 / 216 /.385 17854 / 1514433 / 217 /.389 17702 / 1532135 / 218 /.394 17695 / 1549830 / 219 /.398 18045 / 1567875 / 220 /.403 17862 / 1585737 / 221 /.407 17976 / 1603713 / 222 /.412 17960 / 1621673 / 223 /.417 18110 / 1639783 / 224 /.421 18045 / 1657828 / 225 /.426 17771 / 1675599 / 226 /.431 18041 / 1693640 / 227 /.435 17788 / 1711428 / 228 /.440 17782 / 1729210 / 229 /.444 17763 / 1746973 / 230 /.449 17721 / 1764694 / 231 /.453 17769 / 1782463 / 232 /.458 17728 / 1800191 / 233 /.463 17681 / 1817872 / 234 /.467 17574 / 1835446 / 235 /.472 17606 / 1853052 / 236 /.476 17806 / 1870858 / 237 /.481 17361 / 1888219 / 238 /.485 17564 / 1905783 / 239 /.490 17342 / 1923125 / 240 /.494 17345 / 1940470 / 241 /.499 17429 / 1957899 / 242 /.503 17196 / 1975095 / 243 /.508 17452 / 1992547 / 244 /.512 16968 / 2009515 / 245 /.516 17234 / 2026749 / 246 /.521 16967 / 2043716 / 247 /.525 16919 / 2060635 / 248 /.530 17004 / 2077639 / 249 /.534 16950 / 2094589 / 250 /.538 16986 / 2111575 / 251 /.543 16894 / 2128469 / 252 /.547 16929 / 2145398 / 253 /.551 16607 / 2162005 / 254 /.556 16764 / 2178769 / 255 /.560 16742 / 2195511 / 256 /.564 16430 / 2211941 / 257 /.568 16597 / 2228538 / 258 /.573 16457 / 2244995 / 259 /.577 16415 / 2261410 / 260 /.581 16162 / 2277572 / 261 /.585 16230 / 2293802 / 262 /.589 16145 / 2309947 / 263 /.594 16035 / 2325982 / 264 /.598 16006 / 2341988 / 265 /.602 15712 / 2357700 / 266 /.606 15833 / 2373533 / 267 /.610 15472 / 2389005 / 268 /.614 15648 / 2404653 / 269 /.618 15625 / 2420278 / 270 /.622 15463 / 2435741 / 271 /.626 15348 / 2451089 / 272 /.630 15120 / 2466209 / 273 /.634 15273 / 2481482 / 274 /.638 15065 / 2496547 / 275 /.642 14821 / 2511368 / 276 /.645 14871 / 2526239 / 277 /.649 14597 / 2540836 / 278 /.653 14688 / 2555524 / 279 /.657 14708 / 2570232 / 280 /.660 14487 / 2584719 / 281 /.664 14478 / 2599197 / 282 /.668 14259 / 2613456 / 283 /.672 14226 / 2627682 / 284 /.675 14228 / 2641910 / 285 /.679 14035 / 2655945 / 286 /.682 13863 / 2669808 / 287 /.686 13788 / 2683596 / 288 /.690 13736 / 2697332 / 289 /.693 13482 / 2710814 / 290 /.697 13428 / 2724242 / 291 /.700 13233 / 2737475 / 292 /.703 13227 / 2750702 / 293 /.707 13047 / 2763749 / 294 /.710 13133 / 2776882 / 295 /.714 13152 / 2790034 / 296 /.717 12798 / 2802832 / 297 /.720 12840 / 2815672 / 298 /.724 12750 / 2828422 / 299 /.727 12674 / 2841096 / 300 /.730 12427 / 2853523 / 301 /.733 12519 / 2866042 / 302 /.736 12371 / 2878413 / 303 /.740 12146 / 2890559 / 304 /.743 11984 / 2902543 / 305 /.746 12191 / 2914734 / 306 /.749 11875 / 2926609 / 307 /.752 11672 / 2938281 / 308 /.755 11661 / 2949942 / 309 /.758 11717 / 2961659 / 310 /.761 11568 / 2973227 / 311 /.764 11372 / 2984599 / 312 /.767 11433 / 2996032 / 313 /.770 11297 / 3007329 / 314 /.773 10856 / 3018185 / 315 /.776 10928 / 3029113 / 316 /.778 10916 / 3040029 / 317 /.781 10859 / 3050888 / 318 /.784 10680 / 3061568 / 319 /.787 10707 / 3072275 / 320 /.789 10572 / 3082847 / 321 /.792 10471 / 3093318 / 322 /.795 10383 / 3103701 / 323 /.798 10283 / 3113984 / 324 /.800 10097 / 3124081 / 325 /.803 10019 / 3134100 / 326 /.805 9721 / 3143821 / 327 /.808 9768 / 3153589 / 328 /.810 9662 / 3163251 / 329 /.813 9657 / 3172908 / 330 /.815 9590 / 3182498 / 331 /.818 9473 / 3191971 / 332 /.820 9241 / 3201212 / 333 /.823 9127 / 3210339 / 334 /.825 9096 / 3219435 / 335 /.827 9010 / 3228445 / 336 /.830 8859 / 3237304 / 337 /.832 8784 / 3246088 / 338 /.834 8899 / 3254987 / 339 /.836 8647 / 3263634 / 340 /.839 8611 / 3272245 / 341 /.841 8411 / 3280656 / 342 /.843 8281 / 3288937 / 343 /.845 8375 / 3297312 / 344 /.847 8271 / 3305583 / 345 /.849 8127 / 3313710 / 346 /.852 8051 / 3321761 / 347 /.854 7997 / 3329758 / 348 /.856 7910 / 3337668 / 349 /.858 7918 / 3345586 / 350 /.860 7771 / 3353357 / 351 /.862 7581 / 3360938 / 352 /.864 7475 / 3368413 / 353 /.866 7422 / 3375835 / 354 /.867 7408 / 3383243 / 355 /.869 7397 / 3390640 / 356 /.871 7091 / 3397731 / 357 /.873 7086 / 3404817 / 358 /.875 6883 / 3411700 / 359 /.877 6857 / 3418557 / 360 /.878 6869 / 3425426 / 361 /.880 6906 / 3432332 / 362 /.882 6646 / 3438978 / 363 /.884 6608 / 3445586 / 364 /.885 6480 / 3452066 / 365 /.887 6399 / 3458465 / 366 /.889 6283 / 3464748 / 367 /.890 6225 / 3470973 / 368 /.892 6148 / 3477121 / 369 /.894 6143 / 3483264 / 370 /.895 6013 / 3489277 / 371 /.897 5921 / 3495198 / 372 /.898 5898 / 3501096 / 373 /.900 5822 / 3506918 / 374 /.901 5631 / 3512549 / 375 /.903 5649 / 3518198 / 376 /.904 5527 / 3523725 / 377 /.905 5610 / 3529335 / 378 /.907 5511 / 3534846 / 379 /.908 5400 / 3540246 / 380 /.910 5265 / 3545511 / 381 /.911 5196 / 3550707 / 382 /.912 5223 / 3555930 / 383 /.914 5035 / 3560965 / 384 /.915 5130 / 3566095 / 385 /.916 4999 / 3571094 / 386 /.918 5007 / 3576101 / 387 /.919 4850 / 3580951 / 388 /.920 4800 / 3585751 / 389 /.921 4824 / 3590575 / 390 /.923 4609 / 3595184 / 391 /.924 4689 / 3599873 / 392 /.925 4592 / 3604465 / 393 /.926 4530 / 3608995 / 394 /.927 4491 / 3613486 / 395 /.929 4420 / 3617906 / 396 /.930 4319 / 3622225 / 397 /.931 4164 / 3626389 / 398 /.932 4280 / 3630669 / 399 /.933 4089 / 3634758 / 400 /.934 4100 / 3638858 / 401 /.935 4004 / 3642862 / 402 /.936 3936 / 3646798 / 403 /.937 3989 / 3650787 / 404 /.938 3852 / 3654639 / 405 /.939 3783 / 3658422 / 406 /.940 3792 / 3662214 / 407 /.941 3704 / 3665918 / 408 /.942 3603 / 3669521 / 409 /.943 3489 / 3673010 / 410 /.944 3542 / 3676552 / 411 /.945 3461 / 3680013 / 412 /.946 3464 / 3683477 / 413 /.947 3353 / 3686830 / 414 /.947 3369 / 3690199 / 415 /.948 3310 / 3693509 / 416 /.949 3171 / 3696680 / 417 /.950 3168 / 3699848 / 418 /.951 3189 / 3703037 / 419 /.952 3042 / 3706079 / 420 /.952 3000 / 3709079 / 421 /.953 3075 / 3712154 / 422 /.954 2986 / 3715140 / 423 /.955 2869 / 3718009 / 424 /.955 2811 / 3720820 / 425 /.956 2819 / 3723639 / 426 /.957 2725 / 3726364 / 427 /.958 2796 / 3729160 / 428 /.958 2736 / 3731896 / 429 /.959 2696 / 3734592 / 430 /.960 2579 / 3737171 / 431 /.960 2586 / 3739757 / 432 /.961 2495 / 3742252 / 433 /.962 2501 / 3744753 / 434 /.962 2496 / 3747249 / 435 /.963 2485 / 3749734 / 436 /.964 2391 / 3752125 / 437 /.964 2394 / 3754519 / 438 /.965 2309 / 3756828 / 439 /.965 2314 / 3759142 / 440 /.966 2330 / 3761472 / 441 /.967 2228 / 3763700 / 442 /.967 2182 / 3765882 / 443 /.968 2131 / 3768013 / 444 /.968 2192 / 3770205 / 445 /.969 1967 / 3772172 / 446 /.969 2071 / 3774243 / 447 /.970 2109 / 3776352 / 448 /.970 1986 / 3778338 / 449 /.971 1976 / 3780314 / 450 /.971 2033 / 3782347 / 451 /.972 1886 / 3784233 / 452 /.972 1856 / 3786089 / 453 /.973 1894 / 3787983 / 454 /.973 1814 / 3789797 / 455 /.974 1682 / 3791479 / 456 /.974 1733 / 3793212 / 457 /.975 1706 / 3794918 / 458 /.975 1717 / 3796635 / 459 /.976 1627 / 3798262 / 460 /.976 1712 / 3799974 / 461 /.976 1659 / 3801633 / 462 /.977 1582 / 3803215 / 463 /.977 1664 / 3804879 / 464 /.978 1563 / 3806442 / 465 /.978 1530 / 3807972 / 466 /.979 1421 / 3809393 / 467 /.979 1475 / 3810868 / 468 /.979 1503 / 3812371 / 469 /.980 1428 / 3813799 / 470 /.980 1401 / 3815200 / 471 /.980 1410 / 3816610 / 472 /.981 1344 / 3817954 / 473 /.981 1331 / 3819285 / 474 /.981 1311 / 3820596 / 475 /.982 1275 / 3821871 / 476 /.982 1237 / 3823108 / 477 /.982 1286 / 3824394 / 478 /.983 1187 / 3825581 / 479 /.983 1207 / 3826788 / 480 /.983 1270 / 3828058 / 481 /.984 1147 / 3829205 / 482 /.984 1143 / 3830348 / 483 /.984 1154 / 3831502 / 484 /.985 1093 / 3832595 / 485 /.985 1089 / 3833684 / 486 /.985 1030 / 3834714 / 487 /.985 1068 / 3835782 / 488 /.986 1073 / 3836855 / 489 /.986 1007 / 3837862 / 490 /.986 1014 / 3838876 / 491 /.986 965 / 3839841 / 492 /.987 971 / 3840812 / 493 /.987 931 / 3841743 / 494 /.987 954 / 3842697 / 495 /.987 864 / 3843561 / 496 /.988 872 / 3844433 / 497 /.988 840 / 3845273 / 498 /.988 889 / 3846162 / 499 /.988 819 / 3846981 / 500 /.989 842 / 3847823 / 501 /.989 834 / 3848657 / 502 /.989 819 / 3849476 / 503 /.989 815 / 3850291 / 504 /.989 747 / 3851038 / 505 /.990 725 / 3851763 / 506 /.990 717 / 3852480 / 507 /.990 694 / 3853174 / 508 /.990 748 / 3853922 / 509 /.990 746 / 3854668 / 510 /.991 705 / 3855373 / 511 /.991 673 / 3856046 / 512 /.991 684 / 3856730 / 513 /.991 655 / 3857385 / 514 /.991 600 / 3857985 / 515 /.991 665 / 3858650 / 516 /.992 611 / 3859261 / 517 /.992 642 / 3859903 / 518 /.992 574 / 3860477 / 519 /.992 590 / 3861067 / 520 /.992 568 / 3861635 / 521 /.992 590 / 3862225 / 522 /.992 570 / 3862795 / 523 /.993 554 / 3863349 / 524 /.993 542 / 3863891 / 525 /.993 515 / 3864406 / 526 /.993 509 / 3864915 / 527 /.993 507 / 3865422 / 528 /.993 479 / 3865901 / 529 /.993 486 / 3866387 / 530 /.994 455 / 3866842 / 531 /.994 464 / 3867306 / 532 /.994 468 / 3867774 / 533 /.994 436 / 3868210 / 534 /.994 453 / 3868663 / 535 /.994 442 / 3869105 / 536 /.994 461 / 3869566 / 537 /.994 432 / 3869998 / 538 /.994 462 / 3870460 / 539 /.995 406 / 3870866 / 540 /.995 409 / 3871275 / 541 /.995 403 / 3871678 / 542 /.995 405 / 3872083 / 543 /.995 393 / 3872476 / 544 /.995 375 / 3872851 / 545 /.995 375 / 3873226 / 546 /.995 351 / 3873577 / 547 /.995 351 / 3873928 / 548 /.995 388 / 3874316 / 549 /.996 351 / 3874667 / 550 /.996 329 / 3874996 / 551 /.996 347 / 3875343 / 552 /.996 333 / 3875676 / 553 /.996 317 / 3875993 / 554 /.996 283 / 3876276 / 555 /.996 349 / 3876625 / 556 /.996 291 / 3876916 / 557 /.996 263 / 3877179 / 558 /.996 281 / 3877460 / 559 /.996 268 / 3877728 / 560 /.996 271 / 3877999 / 561 /.997 265 / 3878264 / 562 /.997 281 / 3878545 / 563 /.997 254 / 3878799 / 564 /.997 254 / 3879053 / 565 /.997 259 / 3879312 / 566 /.997 252 / 3879564 / 567 /.997 234 / 3879798 / 568 /.997 228 / 3880026 / 569 /.997 231 / 3880257 / 570 /.997 251 / 3880508 / 571 /.997 211 / 3880719 / 572 /.997 201 / 3880920 / 573 /.997 224 / 3881144 / 574 /.997 203 / 3881347 / 575 /.997 208 / 3881555 / 576 /.997 205 / 3881760 / 577 /.997 190 / 3881950 / 578 /.998 190 / 3882140 / 579 /.998 188 / 3882328 / 580 /.998 212 / 3882540 / 581 /.998 180 / 3882720 / 582 /.998 198 / 3882918 / 583 /.998 200 / 3883118 / 584 /.998 182 / 3883300 / 585 /.998 157 / 3883457 / 586 /.998 167 / 3883624 / 587 /.998 155 / 3883779 / 588 /.998 173 / 3883952 / 589 /.998 153 / 3884105 / 590 /.998 137 / 3884242 / 591 /.998 145 / 3884387 / 592 /.998 170 / 3884557 / 593 /.998 158 / 3884715 / 594 /.998 132 / 3884847 / 595 /.998 136 / 3884983 / 596 /.998 135 / 3885118 / 597 /.998 135 / 3885253 / 598 /.998 129 / 3885382 / 599 /.998 145 / 3885527 / 600 /.998 112 / 3885639 / 601 /.998 117 / 3885756 / 602 /.999 130 / 3885886 / 603 /.999 108 / 3885994 / 604 /.999 113 / 3886107 / 605 /.999 118 / 3886225 / 606 /.999 126 / 3886351 / 607 /.999 108 / 3886459 / 608 /.999 110 / 3886569 / 609 /.999 101 / 3886670 / 610 /.999 103 / 3886773 / 611 /.999 93 / 3886866 / 612 /.999 96 / 3886962 / 613 /.999 88 / 3887050 / 614 /.999 90 / 3887140 / 615 /.999 75 / 3887215 / 616 /.999 73 / 3887288 / 617 /.999 84 / 3887372 / 618 /.999 92 / 3887464 / 619 /.999 83 / 3887547 / 620 /.999 100 / 3887647 / 621 /.999 88 / 3887735 / 622 /.999 91 / 3887826 / 623 /.999 89 / 3887915 / 624 /.999 76 / 3887991 / 625 /.999 80 / 3888071 / 626 /.999 84 / 3888155 / 627 /.999 79 / 3888234 / 628 /.999 77 / 3888311 / 629 /.999 79 / 3888390 / 630 /.999 59 / 3888449 / 631 /.999 70 / 3888519 / 632 /.999 60 / 3888579 / 633 /.999 57 / 3888636 / 634 /.999 73 / 3888709 / 635 /.999 57 / 3888766 / 636 /.999 55 / 3888821 / 637 /.999 62 / 3888883 / 638 /.999 59 / 3888942 / 639 /.999 54 / 3888996 / 640 /.999 48 / 3889044 / 641 /.999 55 / 3889099 / 642 /.999 47 / 3889146 / 643 /.999 63 / 3889209 / 644 /.999 48 / 3889257 / 645 /.999 57 / 3889314 / 646 /.999 47 / 3889361 / 647 /.999 45 / 3889406 / 648 /.999 32 / 3889438 / 649 /.999 42 / 3889480 / 650 /.999 42 / 3889522 / 651 /.999 46 / 3889568 / 652 /%1.000 3891500`
You can paste these into a notepad file.  Let's say your selection is showing total gapping of 250.  Look up 250 in the second column from the left and you will see the percentage chance of gaining a hit in the next spin: 53.8%.

The total gapping rating goes up by 9 on every spin.  I like to see 300 or greater when I am betting.  I used these numbers to gain an extra 200 units in a game that I normally would have abandoned.  I was about to close it but I noticed a top performing selection (number .8.) had over 300 total gapping.  I switched to number 8 and the next number out was 8!  The high rating continued for several more hits and when it finally dropped below 300, I left the session.

WARNING:  This total gapping rating should only be used on top peforming selections (highlighted in yellow on the pixel-felt).  The reason for this is that poor performing selections will naturally have consistently high ratings which creates a false reading.

The new column in yellow on the main screen is the last gap of the main number (before its most recent hit).
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: scepticus on July 11, 2019, 07:27:05 AM
Third
I was referring to Jespers point about his last two bets  winning back his losses .  I don't use - or approve negative progressions. They are a form of " Chasing Losses "  which is not a good idea.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 11, 2019, 11:38:39 AM
He used the term stop loss but we were talking about lowering the chips, if you check the previous post from myself to him.

The point is that the only way to win consistently with this system is to lower the chips, to lock in profits and work with the range of debt.

Thanks for sharing about negative progressions.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 11, 2019, 03:00:25 PM
Fixed the bugs that would cause the chart to flatline if the debt amounts were too far apart and draw a line through the top of the screen that could not be traced back.  Repaired version attached.

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6355)

Here is a session that was under control for 15 hits but then spiraled out of control.  The first time, I kept my chips up because the statistical trends were positive and received recovery profit.  I lowered my chips to protect that profit and then there was a narrow sideways channel and I waited to see which way it would break and it broke bad.  I kept my chips up again because of the favorable statistics and received recovery profit.  I then lowered the chips again and it started to break bad but because of the lowered chips, the swing was only 1/2 as strong (and would have had to be twice as strong to reach the new all time high debt).  This was followed by another narrow sideways channel but I finally broke through.  The final channel was slightly turned upward as I kept getting small corner hits but eventually I reached profit for the session with small chips.  I didn't hit the all time high profit for the session but the point is that I protected against massive potential losses, got the session back down to profit and survived.  This same method will work in the worst sequences.

You can see every hit represented by a cyan hash mark at the top of the screen and every 5 hits is represented by a red hash mark.

We cannot play this system on auto-pilot.  We must be aware of the statistics on a hit-by-hit basis and make decisions about our chip levels with four choices:

1) Press the attack
2) Lower the chips by 1/2
3) Completely lower the chips
4) End the session

I found this graphical representation of the debt to be very helpful while playing; it inspired me to both attack and retreat in turns.  If we consciously apply the 4 choices, we can win the harshest sessions.

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: UnlikelySam on July 11, 2019, 03:20:26 PM
Honestly Third your efforts especially from the programming side and the even more difficult / tedious aspect of testing together with debugging the program is very commendable ;)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcST6zMx8pcH2rSmxdoUNNu-8Lyo6Yqv8v0TNFXnvqSH042VW8Ym)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 11, 2019, 10:53:45 PM
What I really like about this system is the ability of multiple numbers to affect the outcome in an exponential way, even though we are really targeting only one number.
'
"Suite the Permanance"

suite (swēt) noun
apartment consisting of a series of connected rooms used as a living unit (as in a hotel)

per·ma·nence  (pûrmə-nəns)
The quality or condition of being permanent; permanency.

OR an alternate definition:

the state of happening or existing for a long time or for all time in the future

So permanence can be meant here in two ways:

1) We stay on the same selection come fire or nuclear bomb
2) We are able to play the "suite" no matter how the outcomes manifest; i.e. indefinite/continuous play sessions

I am amazed at Jesper's success using #1 and I think with chip level tweaking based on statistics (win high, lose low), combined with judicious bet selection (play the strongest selection), we can accomplish #2; i.e. to start a new session, we simply lower all chips to 1 and continue.

As far as playing the strongest selection, I think trying to minimize switching as much as possible is best, keeping in mind that we should take the favorable opportunities to switch.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 12, 2019, 01:07:27 AM
Third, I dont understand when you lowering the chips, after how many no hits? Because if around our main numbers we have some hits, say every 5 spin one corner hit, we not going ahead. We raise chips, but only with corner wins we will not generate prodit,so the bomb is neccessary therefore I ask, that if we lower, reset the chips to 1 after 20 no hits, we lost very lot chips.

Can you give me an example play? In this few days I read your dofocult explanations, but my english not the best, I kb understood, but not everything of your modified play.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 12, 2019, 05:23:47 AM
Third, I dont understand when you lowering the chips, after how many no hits?

Every hit is a new statistical situation and we have the 4 Choices.  I don't lower chips until at least a hit is received.  After I make a Choice, I stick with it until the next hit (any hit).

There are two main modes, PROFIT and RECOVERY.  We are in profit mode when we first start and stay there until the debt rises to the point that that it can no longer get close to a full recovery; that's recovery mode.

I play profit mode conservatively (I am only looking for 100 units).  I will play the straightforward method until I make a significant gain and I will then usually lower the chips either by 1/2 or entirely and attempt to gain the rest of the 100 with a smaller risk.

In recovery mode I am concerned about debt levels which are:

1) The all time high debt
2) The current debt
3) The all time high profit recovery AND/OR the current high profit recovery

The idea is to create a "downward trajectory" with the debt.  The safe way to do this, is to lower the chips when it is likely that there will be a reversal swing.  This decision is considered after every hit.

The basic rule is that if there have been significant gains, lower the chips to protect the recovery profit.

I consider high dark red numbers to be favorable to at least a hit (if not a streak of hits) on our selection.  I compare the numbers on our selection to the rest of the selections and if our selection is at the top or at least at 300+, its a good time to press attacks and not lower.  400-500 is very good.  Anything 600+ is fantastically good.

I also consider that if our selection has had a gap on the Main number, its next hit is to be expected to not have a gap and I will usually press attacks at that time (I only play selections [Main number] that are highlighted in yellow).

If I don't have good dark red numbers and the Main number hasn't gapped, I will check the 3 Debt Considerations and decide if I need to lower by 1/2 or back to 1 unit or if I need to ride it out for more profit.

We have to recover profit in stages, using the 3 Debt Recovery Considerations.  It takes patience, statistical analysis and difficult decisions have to be made.  Roulette fights tooth and nail at every moment before eventually letting us free.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 12, 2019, 06:21:35 AM
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6360)

I made a bad decision early in this game by switching at the wrong time from a selection that was to become a rocking giant and it took me quite awhile to be able to switch back but once we hit Point 1, the statistics on this selection were fantastically good and I kept pressing and pressing the chips as the statistics kept improving more and more.

What I didn't realize is that because the chips are so heavily raised, there is very little latitude available for dispersion which can occur as the selection will move from a red blazing hot position to just a red hot position and back.  I should have realized this at Point #2 and lowered the chips by 1/2 to lock in the obvious profits, while still having fantastic favorable statistics.

Because I failed to do this, the wide swings illustrated took place and thankfully I was able to at least lock in at Point 3.  It may appear small but the extra 25% difference in debt levels means alot in the overall process.

So I learned a new lesson which is to not forget to lock in profits while reaping major statistical coups!

Roulette is a powerful force, like bottled lightning; one false move and terrible things can happen...

(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TangibleOccasionalGoshawk-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 12, 2019, 06:43:27 AM
Scep!  The stop loss is not the bankroll, it is the table max!  If we have high bets but not on new high, means we indeed have hits, as we use positive prog, often then just  one or two hits help us up. If we are after many spins on low bets, we are as well back, but how will we recover by reducing? we need a much higher hit rate.

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 12, 2019, 06:49:57 AM
If we lose with lower chips the debt climb will be smaller and as it is very much more likely that 8 side numbers will be hitting, our chips will build back up again.  At this time it is likely that we will be in a very good position to then press an attack, which yields even greater gains.

Also, lowering chips doesn't necessarily mean back to one unit, it can be lowering by 1/2 or any other amount.

Large chips creates large swings that will eclipse our bankroll.  Once the main number won't get us close to back, we need to moderate the swings, to preserve our bankroll and carefully recover our profit in chunks.  Its the same thing as using a divisor.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: boyd30 on July 12, 2019, 07:34:05 AM
I find this system to work best on hot numbers. But of course a hot number can go into sleep and then you will have to trust the other numbers will hit. If you get an early hit by the outside numbers it's not a problem then you can start over. But you need the other 4 numbers to hit regulary and even a late hit of the mainnumber won't nessescary recover to start over again. You can do calculations and lower the chips but it will take time and you don't have that when you bet.. I don't understand third's calculation's though if that helps.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 12, 2019, 08:17:33 AM
You can do calculations and lower the chips but it will take time and you don't have that when you bet.

O_o

You only play live lightning wheel?

I play RNG so I take all the time to look at the chart, look at the performance of the other selections and decide how to lower, if it is necessary.

I either lower by 1/2 (round down) or entirely, which is an easy calculation. :)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: boyd30 on July 12, 2019, 10:00:10 AM
Only live wheel. I don't trust the RNG or the automatic wheels.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 12, 2019, 10:58:47 AM
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6368)

Obviously this wasn't a huge recovery session like the others but the principles are exactly the same, just repeated several times before actual profit is regained.

I had no statistical reason to expect additional hits, the rest of the selections appeared more likely to hit and I simply didn't know what to expect and so, I lowered the chips; it can either be completely or by 1/2 -- the key being that it is LOWER so that if there is a debt swing, it will be less than with full chips.  The goal is to create a downward movement of the debt, as the statistics swing in both directions, by betting lower during the debt swing and higher during the profit swing.

Because of the genius of this positive progression, the chips naturally raised for the large coup that all but won the game.  There are several excellent things about this system that work together synergystically.

Could I have just raised my chips and actually done better?  Sure, in this game...
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 13, 2019, 09:46:35 AM
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6379)

(https://i.gifer.com/OFv6.gif)

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6381)

Wow!  Look at all those hot numbers crammed into a single selection!!  I wish I could statistically forecast such events!

Do you see the forecasted hit streaks from selections 11, 29 & 32?  Do you know why the number 32 is particularly favored (two reasons)?

EDIT: Let's actually spin through and see what happens...

The number 32 hit 10 spins later for significant profit!

(https://www.forexfactory.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2200864&d=1487927793)

PS: Please note that number 11 hit in just 6 spins!

What selection is forecasted the strongest now??

(I have the answer, with spins!  I am just waiting for someone to get it right...)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 13, 2019, 12:49:56 PM

Wow!  Look at all those hot numbers crammed into a single selection!!  I wish I could statistically forecast such events!

EDIT: Let's actually spin through and see what happens...

The number 32 hit 10 spins later for significant profit!

PS: Please note that number 11 hit in just 6 spins!

(I have the answer, with spins!  I am just waiting for someone to get it right...)

Third, I like your posts. They have always shown a childish fascination of numbers and the eagerness to understand their underlying nature and if possible predict their appearance in a perfect RNG.

But Third, your observations of SPINS are not actual SPINS, where a number of physical laws (including quantum based processes are involved) are at play, they are in fact a GENERATION of numbers based on a PRNG - Pseudo Random Number Generator as I assume you do not have access to the more sophisticated Casino RNG that are using a randomness extractor like for example very sophisticated cryptographic hashfunctions (much like NSA does) to ensure a close to perfect probability density function that keeps producing the needed span of numbers in the range 0 - 36.

Casino additionally tweak their RNGs depending on the user playing for fun or for Real Money. Hence any tests on your PRNGs are useless in comparison to what a tweaked Casino RNg (with an image of a roulette wheel slapped on it) produces. It is like comparing the visible presence of trees in a forest through a night or a day.

What you are dealing with is NOT roulette, however much you want to believe it. It is plainly Number guessing and attempt, in some way, to systemitize and predict future number sequences based on past sequences where the fallout of positive predictions overshadows the reality of the negative ones.  This will never happen. And one of the reason it doesnt, is why the Casinos are still using this illusory concept they call "Roulette" in a nice CGI package AS AN EQUALl to the REAL thing,  where we are dealing with completely different phenomena, generated by a slew of laws that have very little common ground with the above mentioned.

Yet, I know how you think, so best of luck with what you do. Remember, falling of a cliff you realize soon enough the approaching reality of the ground as the gravity is doing its job. Yet, hope dictates that you can always try flapping your arms and fly away ;)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 13, 2019, 01:22:17 PM
There is not many casinos using  pseudo rng, most use TRNG, and they may be some different from a wheel, or may was, a modern wheel is very as a TRNG.  We have on many fora seen people try to see the difference, but all were failed.  A honest casino using wheel or rng, there is no different. We have some other problems with some, as they may not pay as the smallprint says something else.  It is so it is more easy to trust what you see, and there is BM casino easier. The TRNG casinos make you play faster, so a day on line is like a forthnight in BM.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 13, 2019, 02:10:23 PM
Hey, if I am making money, I don't care if they have density, are dense, have hash, hash tags or hashish!!! :D

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 13, 2019, 03:23:03 PM
Hey, if I am making money, I don't care if they have density, are dense, have hash, hash tags or hashish!!! :D

8)  Hmm...ok, sure.  Well let me compose something you might recall in better light in a future not too distant from now;

Yes, friend, these are for sure the well-known words of any mindless gambler.  Bewitched by the dancing numbers, he uses his mind and will to bend reality to his own liking and rejoices in said affirmation by the temporary inflow of cash into his purse.

That fact and sound alone stand as the ultimate proof of his wits being superior to a Universe inhabited by laws beyond his purview.

But soon enough, even the most subtle law of Large numbers lets it's great tail swirl and gone are the short wins, and once more - vanished are even his secret savings.

Where players see, know and use reason and judgment, even in the midst of the greatest wins, the gambler merely wishes even faster spins and greater returns.

To him, no stopping is wanted and much less care of what has been gained. This sickness is a difficult one for even though the wandering ghost of loss is expected in moments of darkness,  the dream of profit out waves all odds. "Tomorrow, and tomorrow and tomorrow I will do even better",  is his mantra.

And believe it or not, in all this,  yet again and forevermore, our dear Sisyphus pushes the great boulder, for the millionth time,  up the mountain of hope and despair.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 13, 2019, 04:01:53 PM
If you get an early hit by the outside numbers it's not a problem then you can start over.
This is exactly the strategy I am using now.  Unless there are favorable statistics for a press, I simply start over if I have any additional profit from the last hit.

Recovery is the same thing but our "profit" is a lower debt amount of substance.  I don't usually start completely over in recovery, unless I am close to actual profit, I expect a reversal or I had a very large and significant gain; I often reduce the chips by 1/2.

We are in a constant battle to simulaneously lower the debt and protect against a drawdown.  It is as much an art, as it is a science. :)

You know, you just reminded me, I am also starting to move in the direction of continuous, unbroken play too!  I have a goal of 100 units and when I hit it, I start the monitor over but leave the casino open!  I spin until a middle number lights up in yellow (hits above expectation) and then start betting like its a brand new game. :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 13, 2019, 11:33:09 PM
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6387)

I didn't indicate it in the chart, but the next major hit after lowering chips the first time (right before the highlighted green area), I lower chips completely.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 14, 2019, 06:34:28 AM
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6389)

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6391)

I could tell this session was bad from the beginning.  The way the hot numbers rolled out prevented me from getting a good shot at profit; every time I tried to identify a good spot, there was always something wrong with it.

Some examples.  Look at all the hot numbers crammed into the first column and only 2 in the second column.  See all the hot numbers on 0-4 -- all unbettable with the number 5 hitting below expectation.  The perfect bet here is number 23, but of course it is also hitting below expectation.

So I found myself bouncing back and forth on less than ideal numbers and always feeling on edge because things just hadn't rolled out right.  I lowered my chips after awhile during the slow upward climb because I just knew things were wrong.  Maybe I just should have stopped betting and spun through.

Anyway, being up 3100 units (including the loss) so far makes this loss easy to take.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: dobbelsteen on July 14, 2019, 08:08:29 AM
[font=]But Third, your observations of SPINS are not actual SPINS, where a number of physical laws (including quantum based processes are involved) are at play, they are in fact a GENERATION of numbers based on a PRNG - Pseudo Random Number Generator as I assume you do not have access to the more sophisticated Casino RNG that are using a randomness extractor like for example very sophisticated cryptographic hashfunctions (much like NSA does) to ensure a close to perfect probability density function that keeps producing the needed span of numbers in the range 0 - 36.[/font][font=&amp][/font]
[font=&amp]
[font=]Casino additionally tweak their RNGs depending on the user playing for fun or for Real Money. Hence any tests on your PRNGs are useless in comparison to what a tweaked Casino RNg (with an image of a roulette wheel slapped on it) produces. It is like comparing the visible presence of trees in a forest through a night or a day.[/font]

This is a contra diction. A sophisticated RNG is a fair RNG. A tweaked pRNG is not fair. In principle it is not a RNG. On internet the software designers or casino providers do not use a RNG but a database . In the database they collect the data of the player and keep a record of the profit.
[/font][/color]
[font=&amp][/font]
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 14, 2019, 09:39:31 AM

This is a contra diction. A sophisticated RNG is a fair RNG. A tweaked pRNG is not fair. In principle it is not a RNG. On internet the software designers or casino providers do not use a RNG but a database . In the database they collect the data of the player and keep a record of the profit.

As per usual Dobbelsteen you are incorrect in your Casino insights and you clearly misunderstood what my term "tweaking" an RNG really meant.

All regulated, licensed casinos have software that has been tested by an independent third party (for example - EGBA that is registered in the European Parliament and Commission Transparency Registry)

These third parties make RNG evaluations, game and mathematics evaluations, ongoing RNG or game payout verification and reporting live dealer, sports-book or betting exchange evaluations, poker system audits and full security audits. All RNGs that pass are certified as fair, which means they are random. So far so good, huh?

Not exactly and here comes the big rub, or surprise, few gamblers really know about, or even cared to investigate/inform themselves of; The checks above are also made to confirm that the machines meet the minimum payout percentages (casino vs gamblers) established by the areas authorities and gaming commissions, where rules can differ.

If you so far do not understand what this really means let me make it even clearer. This PAYOUT percentage (in the upwards direction) is decided by the Casino (usually within a range of 4-6% return to the Casino and in some cases as high as 8%. The rest of course goes back to the gamblers) on a specific set of number generations (what the gamblers refer to as spins).

This means that at any given RNG "table",  the TRNG processor is tweaked in conjunction with a specific intercepting software that keeps track of the hashed player information, to generate a number that has the least bet value on it for a specific amount of generations ahead until said Casino return goal is met. Once this is met the TRNG produces without the interception of this software and produces perfectly random numbers whatever the bet sizes may be on any given number. This payout curve is controlled continuously and never wavers below  set Minimum Payout. Above, however, is a decision made by the Casino owners based on their quarterly profit expectations for their establishment.

A Stock exchange registered company like unibet which essentially is a BETTING PORTAL, will of course keep a moderate level as the RNG incomes are a tiny part of its business compared to its sportbetting section and small online Casinos with shady backgrounds, will of course have much higher returns to themselves.

Yet, this act breakes no laws established by the gaming commissions and is the sole reason Casinos offers RNG games to its customers. Without it they would be out of business pretty fast.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: scepticus on July 14, 2019, 10:27:26 AM
Leave out one of the Columns and then --

Leave out one or more of the 6 natural corners  OR .

Leave out of the 6 natural corners O or E-/ H or L /  R or B -

Job done !
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Joe on July 14, 2019, 10:39:36 AM
Thomas, no doubt there are some corrupt casinos which operate in the way you describe, but they are in the minority. If you believe otherwise, where is your proof?
I live in the UK and only play at UK gambling commission approved casinos. If what you say is true then casinos would be lying when they tell us that the payout for single zero roulette is 97.3%, as in fact, if you're correct, it would be significantly higher. I do play RNG at times, and being a statistics geek, I record and analyse all my results. It's true that over a short sequence of spins the apparent edge for the casino can be higher than 2.7%, but for other sequences it's below 2.7%. That's variance. On average, the edge is 2.7% or very close to it on either side.

Quote
This means that at any given RNG "table",  the TRNG processor is tweaked in conjunction with a specific intercepting software that keeps track of the hashed player information, to generate a number that has the least bet value on it for a specific amount of generations ahead until said Casino return goal is met. Once this is met the TRNG produces without the interception of this software and produces perfectly random numbers whatever the bet sizes may be on any given number. This payout curve is controlled continuously and never wavers below  set Minimum Payout. Above, however, is a decision made by the Casino owners based on their quarterly profit expectations for their establishment.

If this actually happened it would be very easy to expose because outcomes wouldn't be statistically random (nowhere near). And While I'm sure it does occur, it certainly isn't "standard practice" for online casinos. Unless you're saying that the auditing is worthless and that the auditors are in on it too, lol.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 14, 2019, 11:07:35 AM

Sure Joe, UK is one of those few countries in Europe that offeres a good protection of its gamblers, primarely via their National Action Plan upheld by your Gambling Commission and its different surveillance units, amongst one of them being the SBIU unit. Third party organizations helping them, like Ecogra, Verisign and TST are also a guarantee for a good fair game at Brittish establishments.

Still, this high level of anti-corruption and fair play is far worse in the rest of the EU, when it comes to especially RNG games. Recently the National Swedish Gaming Comission revoked the licenses of a dozen Online Casinos  offering games to Swedish citizens due to corruption within their organizations, false bonus offerings and rigged RNGs. The same can be said about countries like Malta and a few others.

This business has a huge yearly turnover , measuring in the hundred of billions. It is easy to understand that it is still a sort of a Klondyke with many new companies popping up, pushing the limits of what is allowed and not.

The mere fact that most gamblers cannot even calculate the expected RTP*  percentage for a given game because the Casino refuses to provide sufficient information about this crucial factor, is just one of many indicators you are not dealing with an honest game or vendor.

RTP = (Amount returned to players) / Total bet amount by players

https://gamblegenie.com/news/rtp-in-casino-gaming/ (https://gamblegenie.com/news/rtp-in-casino-gaming/)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 14, 2019, 11:19:28 AM
Tomasleor,

All ehat qre you said is interesting, but how it looks like in reality? If I play RNG example with 200 unit bankroll, the machine dont let me go, while he not generates for himself from my money 5% (10 units)? What if I after 1 spin win 20 units and close the game?

About offering games for Swedish citizens and these online casinos sou said generats yearly hundred billions: they are Swedich people dummed people? If they lost so much money, why they continue to play on this platform? I learnt after few RNG plays, that it is unfair, and I stopped playing on this, so what is wrong with Swedish people?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 14, 2019, 11:31:53 AM
Tomasleor,

All ehat qre you said is interesting, but how it looks like in reality? If I play RNG example with 200 unit bankroll, the machine dont let me go, while he not generates for himself from my money 5% (10 units)? What if I after 1 spin win 20 units and close the game?

About offering games for Swedish citizens and these online casinos sou said generats yearly hundred billions: they are Swedich people dummed people? If they lost so much money, why they continue to play on this platform? I learnt after few RNG plays, that it is unfair, and I stopped playing on this, so what is wrong with Swedish people?

The gambling turnover I mentioned is for the EU and the Entire Casino Industry in it. Here Sweden is included. I assume you do understand what a yearly turnover for an industry or single corporation means.

Swedes are not dumb. Gambling addiction (that shortcuts the normal criticial thinking part of a mind) is as common in Sweden as it is in your own country and the rest of Europe. It makes people do the most stupid things they normally wouldnt do under non extreme conditions.

They do such things and even worse when they instead should walk away and find better odds, or less game volatility. Stupidity often leads to desperation, and even worse states of mind. The Gaming industry (its more shady parts) is aware of this and prospers on that particular state of mind. To do else would be contradictive to the nature of the business they ve chosen. It is all strategy, and they have become the masters of it.

Only a very small number of gamblers, call them players, who know good ways to approach the games of chance do good and live from them satisfactory from year to year, with a nice tidy profit and without too many waves affecting anyone around them are the real professionals in the business.

The gaming industry don´t care about them. They are insignificant in size, compared to the gambling junkies they bleed out year out, and year in. hence the number I showed above. One could say that the roles here of getting the good fish, lies not in catching the big whales, but more amassing the small fry, for they are in the millions and provide the numbers the Casinos need to survive and go on forever as long as gambling remains as a primal unquenchable urge in the human mind.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: MickyP on July 14, 2019, 12:09:04 PM
I agree with you Thomas, there is a big difference between players and gamblers. I see many people in the casinos I visit get trapped in the fast spin vortex of RNG. What makes this attractive as well is the low chip values offered to the players. Same concept as slots; low denomination machines are always busy and make the loudest noise.
All these game are the same as they are set to guarantee the casino a % turnover within a set time/spin frame. This is common knowledge and it is not against random but against computer programs that gamblers wage their bets. This seems rather ludicrous because most RNG specialists on this forum are also very clued up on IT. The only logical reason I can come up with is that they believe Gamblers Fallacy can be overcome and beaten.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Joe on July 14, 2019, 03:43:54 PM
Thomas, RTP does apply to all games but where I think you're mistaken is assuming it applies to roulette in the same way it applies to slots. Roulette, even if RNG, is not slots because for roulette there are fixed payouts and probabilities. For a single zero wheel the relationship between the payout and probabilities is fixed so that the RTP is set at 97.3%. But with slots what are the probabilities for any particular event? Certainly the player cannot calculate them in advance like he can in roulette, so in a sense the edge is maintained "dynamically" by the casino (as you suggest). But if the casino tried to do this with roulette it would constitute cheating; there is no need for it because the edge is built-in and completely fixed. All they need to do is provide random outcomes and keep the payouts short.

Slots are more complex than roulette. All the casino has to do to create a roulette RNG is simulate 37 numbers each with an equal chance of hitting and then set the payouts for single and group bets.  Slots aren't "simulated" because there is nothing to simulate.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Joe on July 14, 2019, 03:54:24 PM
This seems rather ludicrous because most RNG specialists on this forum are also very clued up on IT. The only logical reason I can come up with is that they believe Gamblers Fallacy can be overcome and beaten.
Maybe it's because we're clued up on IT that we understand why RTP doesn't work the same way for roulette as it does for slots. I'm sure Third understands this the same way I do.  ;)

And even with slots the way RTP works doesn't imply the casino is cheating. They may adjust the edge and payouts according to how much has been paid out in some period of time, but that doesn't mean any individual player is being cheated; it just means it's a matter of luck if you happen to be playing or not when the payouts occur (or not) in order to maintain the edge.

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 14, 2019, 04:11:39 PM
I don't have an agenda either way.  I am profitable lifetime on RNG.  That's all I need to know.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Joe on July 14, 2019, 04:18:59 PM
Third, me too. It's not a question of having an agenda though. Whether something is true or not doesn't depend on anyone's agenda.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 14, 2019, 06:20:25 PM

Joe wrote; "Whether something is true or not doesn't depend on anyone's agenda.".

Riiiight...you seem like a very naive fellow so I will go easy on you.

Let me see how many times that statement has been stretched, distorted and otherwise screwed the human evolution sideways during its history:  Sorry, my calculator lost counting and produced an error message  ;D

But lets choose a few ones just for the fun of it.

Hitler´s many speeches on whose fault the misery of the German people was during pre-war and even throughout the WW2. Goebels, his propaganda minister did his best and succeeded convincing the German people about the valididity of many lies, presented as solid truths. The proof of this having effect was the found in the many millions that died for them. Wasnt the truth bent there to the will of their Fuhrer and the proof of his "truth" convincing teh masses in those who marched voluntarely or forced to their death in the wars that followed ?

Bush assertion in the UN (through powell) that Iraq had chemical weapons and even capacity to nuclear ones, that posed a threat to the region and the world. Started one war on this argument alone which in its turn initiated countless minor conflicts in the area till this day.

I could back in history and of course even forward to our contemporary, but you get my meaning.

One could point to many similarities in the world of science, inventions, philosophy, and so on.To the human mind truth is always in the eyes of the beholder whatever you might be told by others of greater knowledge or authority. It is all a matter of perception and validation.

You could of course claim mathematical truth, but then mathematical truth is importantly tied to the ontology of mathematics.  In particular, a central question is what kinds of objects we commit ourselves to when we endorse the truth of ordinary mathematical sentences, like ‘4 is even’ and ‘There are infinitely many prime numbers.’ and so on

But there are other important philosophical questions about mathematical truth as well.  For instance: Is there any plausible way to maintain that mathematical truths are analytic, i.e., true solely in virtue of meaning?  And given that most ordinary mathematical sentences follow from the axioms of our various mathematical theories (e.g., from sentences like ‘0 is a number’), how can we account for the truth of the axioms?  And how can we account for the objectivity of mathematics...?

Joe wrote:

But if the casino tried to do this with roulette it would constitute cheating; there is no need for it

Yeah, right... Sorry but you are wrong. I could post a list here of an array of European online Casinos that have lost their license due to proof of cheating in various forms. I have my own forum and have so far had two members that lost all their deposits to such Casinos that cheated openly on payouts and later even closed down due to intervention by the authorities.

Trust me I understand what you write because I have been in this business for nearly 30 years now and basically seen all forms of tricks Casinos implement to increase their edge.

There is a reason in the pre-online era Casinos used an array of Enviromental intereference effects upon various gamblers that temporary won large sums of money at their tables. Free drinks, sudden appearance of rude "gamblers", closing of a table, no clocks on the walls etc were a few of those tricks.

Today they use beyond the normal edge of 2,7%, erratic video broadcasting, sudden closing of a betting platform due to technical issues, account problems, non-payout at certain wins (which you have to complain and then maybe be credited in a couple of days, or even delayed payouts during a game etc. Everything is there just to disturb the rythm of the gambler and discourage when the variance curve is in his favor meaning his winnings is way above average expectation.

In the world of Casino ownership, much always want more and the more greedy minded ones among these owners will implement ways to increase profit in any way they believe they can get away with. Even bribes of gaming commissioenrs is always on the table considering the immense amount of money flowing in this business.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Joe on July 14, 2019, 10:01:44 PM

Hitler´s many speeches on whose fault the misery of the German people was during pre-war and even throughout the WW2. Goebels, his propaganda minister did his best and succeeded convincing the German people about the valididity of many lies, presented as solid truths. The proof of this having effect was the found in the many millions that died for them. Wasnt the truth bent there to the will of their Fuhrer and the proof of his "truth" convincing teh masses in those who marched voluntarely or forced to their death in the wars that followed ?

Bush assertion in the UN (through powell) that Iraq had chemical weapons and even capacity to nuclear ones, that posed a threat to the region and the world. Started one war on this argument alone which in its turn initiated countless minor conflicts in the area till this day.
Thomas, you seem confused, so I'll go easy on you.  ;D

So because Hitler's lies convinced and persuaded many German people does it follow that his lies were in fact true?
Because Bush convinced many that Iraq did have chemical weapons does it follow that it did?
If a scammer sells a roulette system which they claim wins and many people buy it, does it follow that he does in fact have a winning system?
If I claim that this lump of Pyrite is gold and try to sell it to you, and you believe me, does it follow that it really is gold?
If I have an agenda to convince others that the world is flat, and many people believe me, does it follow that it actually is flat?
I think you get my drift.
Quote
One could point to many similarities in the world of science, inventions, philosophy, and so on.To the human mind truth is always in the eyes of the beholder whatever you might be told by others of greater knowledge or authority. It is all a matter of perception and validation.

No, truth is not always in the eye of the beholder. In fact that's a contradiction. Aristotle said it most clearly and simply :

“To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”.

What you're advocating is relativism, which is nonsense.

Quote
Joe wrote :

But if the casino tried to do this with roulette it would constitute cheating; there is no need for it

Yeah, right... Sorry but you are wrong. I could post a list here of an array of European online Casinos that have lost their license due to proof of cheating in various forms. I have my own forum and have so far had two members that lost all their deposits to such Casinos that cheated openly on payouts and later even closed down due to intervention by the authorities.

I didn't say that there are no cases of casinos cheating, only that what you claim is standard practice by them is incorrect. If you're going to disagree with me, at least disagree with what I actually said and not what you thought I said or what you would have liked me to say.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 15, 2019, 01:34:13 AM
Leave out one of the Columns and then --

Leave out one or more of the 6 natural corners  OR .

Leave out of the 6 natural corners O or E-/ H or L /  R or B -

Job done !

You definitely got me thinking.  After sleeping on it and looking at it fresh, in cases of emergency like this, it actually makes the most sense to play number 2 with support numbers 0,1,3,6,7,9; yes, its only 7 numbers instead of 9 but its OK since the zero is hot (overrepresented by chips).

If I was back in the game (and had the software configured for it), I would definitely continue playing to full profit.  I am adding this to the list for v. 1.122 .  Thanks!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 15, 2019, 10:02:19 AM
Yesterday I had a testplay with live dealer. I had man number 11, but I did not just bet on corners, but splits too around number, so it was 9 unit. The 12 was hit around 5 times, the 8 around 4 times, so it gave me some profits, but of course after 10-20 spins I was not in profit, but in the end I went up 60 euro+ with 0,10 euro bet, it is +600 units bomb in the end!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 15, 2019, 11:52:06 AM
Wow, grats!

So the main number pays out 135 units, right?  And I forget how much for the side numbers... >.<

I think that means the bankroll should be 5/9=1.56*5000=7800 units.  Playing conservatively (lowering chips at least by 1/2 frequently), so far the worst drawdown I have seen is under 1600 units, which would be 2500 units if I played the extra splits too...

Was it live online?

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 15, 2019, 12:09:43 PM
Yes live dealer. But test money, I was curious just, I must test it before I take myself in the system in reality.

We should add the extre splits when we are "close" to the hit. We start with corners, after some spins add extra splits maybe good idea.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 15, 2019, 12:28:04 PM
Adding a split, is to take some more risk, of lose more or win less, I play mostly NOZ, and should then hesitate, if I ever use an Armhole I would think it may be something to try.

We play all different, and I use to be carefully to advice, something is wrong, if not obvious, the game is to a small extent depending on skill anyhow.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 15, 2019, 01:04:24 PM
Yes live dealer. But test money, I was curious just, I must test it before I take myself in the system in reality.

For me this is essential.  I think it is a massive mistake to play a system without strongly testing it.  I personally try to double my bankroll before I take it to real money and I know that even then, there will be worse drawdowns lurking (an unrealistically low bankroll does not count) but at least I have a solid idea of how the system flows.  Flying blind in roulette makes it extremely easy to blow an entire bankroll.  I prefer to make my mistakes with fake money.  I spent years only playing fake money.

I mean its almost like not even playing roulette (without proper testing) because our system must be crafted to deal with the worst sequences and how are we supposed to know what they look like if we haven't tested??
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 15, 2019, 02:32:24 PM
We learn more by testing with money, start with 10 Euro which is 1000 units on a penny site.  Running 10000 spins with no real bankroll can confuse.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 15, 2019, 02:45:33 PM
Starting with 10 euro not make sense, its nothing, not serious bankroll, so I will not take it seriously the game too with pennys. Rather test with fake money, but live dealer, so I can see the game, manage it, and how would performs with 0,1 euro, because I have no penny casino at Bitstarz.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 15, 2019, 03:20:09 PM
A real test is with money, and can you use 0.1 (I do often) you got the right feeling. On free money we do not use to act as we do with real. Anyhow take care all bets with money, is a risk.  Testing  on paper use to not give the answer.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 15, 2019, 03:35:53 PM
I not test with paper, as I said I tested live dealer. But this strategy is nit for fun, it is real adrenalin game, when it not hits the first 50-60 spins. The bets just rising, bankroll goes down, and we will never knowy when our main number will hit.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 15, 2019, 04:19:05 PM
I think I sound like a broken record with all my posts about lowering chips.  So let's post a juicy pressing example!

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6401)

I love the term "recovery basecamp" and here is the mental image I get every time:

Its like mountain climbing overnight.  8)

Here is how I left it:

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6399)

I probably sound like a ninny, I mean even when I press I am so conservative but if I get the right sequence of outcomes, the winnings can be quite large.

Wow, I just realized the reason why Bet 26 is so heavily forecasted, is largely because the number 26 itself has been sleeping for 110 spins!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: thomasleor on July 15, 2019, 06:27:59 PM
Quote
So because Hitler's lies convinced and persuaded many German people does it follow that his lies were in fact true?
Because Bush convinced many that Iraq did have chemical weapons does it follow that it did?
If a scammer sells a roulette system which they claim wins and many people buy it, does it follow that he does in fact have a winning system?
If I claim that this lump of Pyrite is gold and try to sell it to you, and you believe me, does it follow that it really is gold?
If I have an agenda to convince others that the world is flat, and many people believe me, does it follow that it actually is flat?
I think you get my drift.

What you're advocating is relativism, which is nonsense.

Sorry for raining on your parade, Shmoe, but what I just put a light on in my previous reply is not RELATIVISM, but DECEPTION and how well it can be expressed as truth, oh, in so many ways.

Yes, deception being an antithesis to truth as it always carries an agenda (sarc). Much like yourself ;)

Quote

I didn't say that there are no cases of casinos cheating, only that what you claim is standard practice by them is incorrect. If you're going to disagree with me, at least disagree with what I actually said and not what you thought I said or what you would have liked me to say.

Joe, you are whining. It doesn´t become you well.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: dreamtr0 on July 15, 2019, 06:53:06 PM
15) 7 +8] 5 6 7  8 9  11  12
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Joe on July 16, 2019, 08:40:05 AM
DECEPTION and how well it can be expressed as truth, oh, in so many ways.
Yes, deception being an antithesis to truth as it always carries an agenda (sarc). Much like yourself ;)
Everyone has an agenda, what's yours?

My statement was :
Whether something is true or not doesn't depend on anyone's agenda. So I'm not sure why you were attacking it, because you seem to agree with me. Or maybe it's a language problem as your first language obviously isn't English. Maybe you just like arguing for the sake of it. Whatever.  ::)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: MickyP on July 16, 2019, 12:39:16 PM
Joe, you have been weighed and measured and if found wanting, you will be recruited. Tommy rolls that way...lol.

I enjoyed reading your replies to Thomas, very entertaining from a spectators point of view. What I found funny was that Thomas always uses Hitler, Nazi, and the like to intimidate his foe, trying to get the deer in headlights effect,  ::) .

By the way, Thomas has a very expensive chair he sits in when he plays roulette so it's safe to say that he is also a PC player. I know there are different types of online setups but you guys could share notes, or not.

Oh, almost forgot; Tommy says Third is childish or child like in his over zealous approach to roulette but Tommy is a fighter pilot when he plays, could be a squadron leader or maybe the red Barron reincarnated....  ;D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 16, 2019, 01:32:25 PM
TH pretends to be informed, and the Swinglish has a Stockholm accent.  I do not know more, and he can take over my thread no problem as I explained all I wanted from start.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 16, 2019, 01:46:19 PM
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 17, 2019, 07:49:27 AM
14 14 12 14 12 12 13 was the number fallen, I had  20 Euro each corner  (14) from start, decide to press a few spin, revert to 80 in stake just in time of the first miss and stopped  play 14.  I did place a single at 14 while hitting. One of the best streak so far using the method.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 17, 2019, 11:52:26 AM
Wow grats!!  :o

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6405)

Just to give some perspective, this session was 1600+ spins and that highest high was 1300 units of debt.  The lowest low (apart from the very beginning) was about 250 units.  This post is about accepting the offer that roulette makes to us.

When I grinded back some 750 units and reached 250 units, I had a little conversation with myself about ending the session.  I felt very confident with how the situation looked, betting number 32 (see main below).

It turned bad and ultimately, I ended up driving it to 1300 units while number 14 slowly crept into top position; roulette often makes large moves by creeping.  I eventually found it proper to switch to 14 and grinded it down to 392 units and decided to end the game, accepting the loss.

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6407)

The general rule is that when we have grinded some 75% of the debt back and the game was seriously out of control (at least 500 units or more), it makes sense to accept these offers because there is a reason for the session being out of control that is not usually seen in regular play.

A large gain in profit recovery is likely to be replaced by a large counter-swing.

Now that I have recorded this small loss (still up 1300 units), let's continue to grind a bit to see if I can directly win...

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6409)

There was some serious competition from 32 but it was significantly outweighed by the crushing power of 14, in 231 spins.  This theoretical session ended up +6 units.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 17, 2019, 12:36:11 PM
This forum make me mad, I write a lot, and a falure in the server or else make me lose all what I wrote, and I do not like to do it all over. A good post is spoiled?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 17, 2019, 12:41:42 PM
Yes, there is a post timeout.  When we make a big post it takes so much time that the server will lock us out and we have to log back in, losing our post.

The solution is to always hit CTRL-A, CTRL-C before hitting the "Post" button.  This will hold the post in our clipboard in case things don't go as planned. :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 17, 2019, 06:38:19 PM
Here is a game that went about 2300 units.  The gap was too large and the chart flatlined, so I will fix that immediately for the next release.

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6414)

In the previous game, we saw that there are profit swings and debt counter-swings.  In this game I actually brought it down from around 1000 units to just under 150 units and refused the offer.

Well, say hello to 2300 units and how are we supposed to swing that?!

This is where Jesper's Way comes in.  Debt counter-swings are simply based on expectation, which is based on the coups:spins ratio.  So if we coup small, we will hit a counter-swing before we can recover (that's not bad if it is our intention and we are prepared for it; i.e. set up recovery basecamp) but if we coup large, we will gain more recovery profit before the swing can manifest.

It was with this idea in mind that I started to attack the 2300 units and I discovered that there is a way to time our attacks, in anticipation of an upcoming profit swing (a streak of hits).

The process is a little bit like a sniper that has to adjust for distance and windage.  Sometimes the target suddenly moves and he has to start all over; its better to make a 50 unit mistake rather than a 500 unit mistake.

What I do is watch the trend indicators to see if I were to miss my next attack, that I would be in a very strong trending position, to expect a hit streak.  High future numbers aren't quite enough, if a significant portion of the board is higher, so I need to have an edge over at least half of the other selections.

So if those conditions are met, I start collecting hits and retaining them, in preparation for the Main number to hit or a strong series of side hits.  If those conditions are not met, I simply reduce all chips to 1 unit after every hit that is close to profit; slippage of 25 or 50 units is OK -- I am looking to coup large.

Once in proper conditions, I can just keep pressing the attack and rack up the huge wins, stopping the attack when conditions are no longer favorable.  The system automatically gains very largely and quickly on the profit:debt ratio, IF, we are in the proper statistical environment; if we are surrounded by higher trend indicators when we need our coups, things might not go as we would want.

Also, we don't need to recover the full 2300 all in one massive attack.  We can take several very large coups, lowering our risk with each success.  This game actually did end at +23 units.

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 18, 2019, 07:57:43 AM
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6418)

(https://www.poemhunter.com/i/poem_images/468/woulda-coulda-shoulda.jpg)

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6420)

Now, I predict that the number 29 selection is most likely to hit.  Since I have already recorded the loss, let's see what happens...

Number 23 hit twice to number 29's once (late) and am still grinding for 238 units and raised chips with very strong stats...

Number 23 hit again and 29's stats tanked after a late sleeping side hit.  The debt would be at 436 units.  Its nowhere near a hopeless situation but more work would be required.

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6422)

So the point is, we know what is most likely, but we don't know exactly what will happen and how exactly it will happen.  We always must prepare for loss while we seek profit.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 18, 2019, 01:20:58 PM
I do not try any prediction manner , I leave the outcome at the wheel.  I got not any deep down yet, but know it can and at the end will happen.  I work with a method which should fail once in a lifetime, I have to tune as it is so complicated to follow, and the gain is very small, but safe.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 18, 2019, 02:30:20 PM
You mean a method for this system or do you mean a method for another system?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: scepticus on July 18, 2019, 03:19:44 PM
So, Jesper, you rely only  on  a progresssion?
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 19, 2019, 07:43:59 AM
Scep, there are not such as relay. Hocus Pocks does not help.  The stats gives just a clue of the probability. A progression can help, but relay is not the Right world for it.  I still say roulette is not a skill game.

I will now go down in risk and chip value, after some time of more risky play. I won, but that is probably not a bad idea, to take care.  Some stops and walk out in the be live the door save them, and it do until next time. Some reduce the bet to "lock" win and it helps for a time.

I will next work with a staking plan and bet combination, there the risk of ruin is extremely low, such a method has a property of seldom lose and the backside is it wins very small.  We can then use chips of higher value, as we do not have high risk to meat the table limit. Still we must have power up to the table limit, to exclude many losses.  It will not be foolproof  of course, but in the magnitude of 50000 win to a lost shirt.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 08:28:50 AM
Right now I only look to earn 100 units per session.  I think that lowers the risk a great deal.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 19, 2019, 11:39:06 AM
100 unit is OK if the units are pretty low, and the system needs some bankroll.  If the units are 10 Euro, 10 may be a good target.

I am testing a method, similar to some i published, but try to make it safer for large loss. As I said before the price is smaller win each session.  The wast number of my games are on low chip value, I do larger sometimes, but like the tables with broad spread, and low min stakes. One reason is if we want to rise the bet a fraction, and we have ground bet 1 Euro, we can not use a bet as 1,12 if we lowest stake not is one cent. The rounding up or down disrupt then.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 11:53:10 AM
Wow good information.  I am about to hit 5000 units of grinded test profits.  I will publish my results very soon.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 01:43:34 PM
Code: [Select]
`+100 +364-10000 ----- <=== no lowering+467 +831 +46 +877+164 +1041-10000 ----- <=== Marty 2x on 500&600 tgap+385 +1426+170 +1596 +131 +1727+5 +1732+2 +1734 +149 +1883+4 +1887+20 +1907+68 +1975+20 +1995+126 +2121+0 +2121+100 +2221+498 +2719+10 +2729+54 +2783+35 +2818+27 +2845+14 +2859+106 +2965 +100 +3065+110 +3175+4 +3179+110 +3289+114 +3403+38 +3441+92 +3533+122 +3655-471 +3184 <=== First lost session+66 +3250+34 +3284+112 +3396+78 +3474+18 +3492+2 +3494 <=== testing the +2 +3496 <=== internal randomizer+3 +3499 <=== which caused me to+5 +3504 <=== end sessions prematurely+4 +3508 <=== to formalize proper output-392 +3116 <=== Second lost session+113 +3229+140 +3369+104 +3473+23 +3496+122 +3618+111 +3729+117 +3846+19 +3865-249 +3616 <=== Third lost session (blush)+122 +3738+100 +3838+102 +3940+129 +4069+12 +4081+23 +4104+128 +4232+27 +4359+42 +4401+40 +4441+44 +4485+100 +4585+128 +4713+100 +4813+1 +4814+34 +4848 +60 +4908+30 +4938+8 +4946+37 +4983+143 +5126`
There are 77 sessions which I officially started around 07/07, creating the monitor on 07/09.  Let's detail the things I have learned, starting with the most ugly things.

You will notice that very early on, there are two -10K sessions that were not included in the totals.  I will accept all the criticism in the world for this BUT the following considerations should also be noted:

1) This is a system test and part of the testing process is to determine the limits of "responsible" play
2) Both are noted with the reasons they occurred:
---a) I bet straight through without ever lowering my chips
---b) I bet crazily based on forecasted probabilities; doubling my chips twice
3) None of these events occurred again in over 70 subsequent sessions because the behaviors that caused them were eliminated

a) is the reason I started talking about lowering chips so much.  Its important to be skilled at this, so we can avoid a massive drawdown that will exhaust our bankroll.

b) is a warning that very favorable probabilities are not certainties.  I have found that simply retaining one's chips without lowering them is quite enough to reap large profits.

I have found that the most conservative approach is usually best, applying Boyd's method across the board:

If you get an early hit<s>...then you can start over.

This keeps the debt swings as low as possible.  I used to let the chips ride until actual profit (+ profit session balance) was obtained but I found that it created large debt amounts unnecessarily.

There are 3 posted session losses using this conservative method; all of them can be found in this thread with details & graphs.  I have found that losses of 200-300 units are very easily recovered.  Sessions can be continued with those loss amounts but I would only do that if I had very favorable statistics; if there is that much debt after wins, the session was out of control to a significant degree.

I am now going to code and release the monitor v. 1.3 and post my exact method up to this point.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 19, 2019, 01:53:22 PM
Did my plays, which for the moment are very experimental. Using SEK 1 ground bet (about 0.1 Euro).
Came not in any larger drown down and could then not test my new ideas. Good enough, the plus becomes  2730 units, and the total spins was close to the same as the units in profits.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 19, 2019, 02:10:50 PM
Third, congrat to your results. Csn you give us an easier explanation about your gameplay style? As I am a tester of this system too (now more rarely) but I am curious how you manage the game, but your softwer and your expalantions are very hard to understand for me because of my not fluence english, but I am curious more about when you decrease the bets, after how many spins, etc some important things, because Jesper said, after a hit he increase the bets +2. I tested too that after a hit I added the corners, and the main numbers +1. But of course if I added splits, I had enermous profits, but I had after 50-70 spins 50-60 units bet/spin.

I like the way you play, I wanna study a little more about them.

Thanks, if its possible!

Giajjenno
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 02:24:23 PM
I am testing a method, similar to some i published, but try to make it safer for large loss. As I said before the price is smaller win each session.

This is what I attempted to accomplish, but you are better at it than I am!

I am looking forward to any results that you wish to share! :D

@Giaj: I am going to post my exact method, putting all my advice in this thead, into one post, with the release of the new software.  I have only used Jesper's method of increasing the hit chips by +1, increasing all chips by +1 on a Main hit.

I have created a chip lowering strategy (Jesper doesn't do this very often) and I will detail what I have discovered so far.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 07:58:22 PM
Ok v. 1.3 is now released!  First off, all the new features:

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6427)

There is now an internal randomizer so we can play without using a roulette client of any kind.  To activate or shut off the randomizer, just hit the "*" on your keyboard.  To generate a spin, click anywhere on the screen that is not a number button; you will hear a differen't click and the random number will appear (the spin) above the "0" button.  The testing is extremely quick using this feature; you can tell when I implemented it from my test results, in the last post.

Beneath the chip amounts after the total there is a ":" and now is displayed a percentage of the Main hit to the debt.  Anything above .999 means we will gain X-times the debt and anything below 1, displays the percentage of the debt, if our Main number hits.  This is extremely useful if we wish to adjust our bet sizing at certain times; the number will change in response to any changes to the chip levels.

To the right of the debt display is now a second number that will represent the profit gained if the debt is displayed as 0.  For now, if the debt is greater than 0, the last profit gained will remain displayed.  This is helpful when using the internal randomizer to test, as we don't have a roulette client to tell us our profit.

Now we can cut our chip levels in half, instantly by clicking the " ` " key (which is the reverse apostrophe, located on my kb, to the left of the number "1" key, in the upper left).  For now, it may reduce a chip level to a "0" value; just set the toggle to "INCREMENT" and make it a "1" in those isolated cases.  Its much easier than having to adjust every single chip level every single time we want to halve our chips (and eat them too!). :D

Now we can edit our debt in case we have made a betting mistake of some kind.  Simply hit "e" on the keyboard and enter the debt amount you wish.

Also, we will now see our bet selection displayed on the pixel-felt, colored in magenta.  I found myself forgetting what I was betting; it was a pain to keep having to look down to the lower display to see my bet selection.

We have the trend indicators displayed on the pixel-felt!!!  They are color coded for their probability level.  Now it is no longer necessary to have to keep looking back and forth to see the comparative indicators, all can be seen right on the felt simultaneously!

Finally, the text output file has finally arrived!!!!  Now we can share our games in a text format that is easily readable, watching the action spin by spin!  The text file is called "Jesper_Sessions".  Here is a sample game to get started with:

Code: [Select]
`*07-19-201914:30:25 5  7  18  30  30  26  21  31  8  17  24  32  23  1  0  29  1  21  10  24  29 User bets selection 29  17  11  21  6  8  26 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 12 Spins: 27 User resets chips 25 HIT LL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 8 Spins: 28 User resets chips 12  22  8  13  22  36  28 HIT LL/LR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 25 Spins: 35 User resets chips 33 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 21 Spins: 36 User resets chips 30 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 8 Spins: 37 User resets chips 3  12  1  7  27 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 24 Spins: 42 User resets chips 13  8  2  5  14  25 HIT LL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 45 Spins: 48 User resets chips 9  6  30 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 42 Spins: 51 User resets chips 2  16  2  0  2  33 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 63 Spins: 57 User resets chips 11  21  25 HIT LL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 69 Spins: 60 User resets chips 17 User bets selection 17  28  0  7  25  2  18 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 86 Spins: 67  32  12  8  0  26  2  21 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 2 UR 2 LR 1 Debt: 117 Spins: 74  20 HIT LR/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 2 UR 3 LR 1 Debt: 89 Spins: 75 User bets selection 8 User lowers chips 1/2 14  13  35  32  20  30  33  5 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 2 LR 1 Debt: 119 Spins: 83 User resets chips 14  19  21  8 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 67 Spins: 87  11 HIT LR/UR!CN 2 LL 2 UL 2 UR 2 LR 2 Debt: 41 Spins: 88 User resets chips 26  14  28  0  33  11 HIT LR/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 53 Spins: 94 User resets chips 35  27  31  6 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 64 Spins: 98 User resets chips 12 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 60 Spins: 99 User resets chips 30  8 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 101 *07-19-201914:47:06`
Here is the chart from that game:

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6425)

The first image in this post is the Main screen after the last hit.

Ok, so that's it for the software release.  Now to detail my exact method...
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 19, 2019, 08:25:09 PM
Thrid,

I downloaded your softwer, professional work it seems, because hard to understand what I see. Which columns do you watch in-game, which is the msot important ? After spins I see  two red columns, one yellow, and I can see when to add chips to bet.

Thanks for this good softwer, would be good to understand how to use, even your explanations can do it for me better and better.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 08:44:06 PM
You should first review this post:

https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,2829.msg48192.html#msg48192 (https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,2829.msg48192.html#msg48192)

It explains all the columns.

Review this post to learn about the trend indicators:

https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,2829.msg48233.html#msg48233 (https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,2829.msg48233.html#msg48233)

The updated percentages are attached.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 09:26:06 PM
Ok, so here goes on my method to date.  I may not be able to fit it all into one post because it is probably going to take longer than an hour to write.

Pre-Game

I spin until the first Main number (5,8,11,14,17,20,23,26,29,32) lights up in red and yellow highlighting on the pixel-felt.  I begin betting that number.

Profit Mode

This is when we first start and lasts until the Main number is no longer able to get us back to at least near profit.  You can always check this figure by looking under the chip totals at the ratio in cyan; if we are at 1.0 or above, we are still in Profit Mode.

I use the Boyd ApproachTM which is the most conservative.  With every hit, I check the accrued profits.  If I am at 100 units or more, I end the session.

Otherwise I check the trend indicator for my selection and compare it to the other Main selections; If I am the highest number or at least in the top 3-4, I will let the chips ride.  Otherwise, I reset the chips to 1.

I continue the above process until we hit Recovery Mode.

Recovery Mode

This begins when the cyan ratio figure is below 1.  Here I begin watching the trend indicator for my selection after every hit, looking for an indication that I am in at least the top 3-4 of the other selections; if so, I let the chips ride and if not, back to 1 with them all.

This will usually allow us to resolve the game with large recovery profits when it is most probable to gain a hit or streak of hits.

Trend Obscurity

Hopefully our selection his hitting so much, in such a balanced way, that we never find ourselves with a highest trend indicator.  This can happen repeatedly and it is impossible not to notice it; its called Trend Obscurity.

This is the Law of the Third that is delivering an overwhelming group of above expectation hits to our selection.  We can't leave our chips at 1 unit forever because we will find ourselves cycling in the same debt range and not making any progress.  So we have to decide when to allow the chips to raise.

Maybe we observe a high number in the cycle range for the trend indicators; e.g. every time the trend indicator hits 250, there is a hit on the selection that comes very soon -- we notice this repeatedly.  In that case, when we are at 250 (or close to it), we stop resetting the chips and begin spinning for larger profit on our selection which is very hot.

Maybe our Main number just hit and is back from a gap (over 37 spins in the yellow column).  This may be a good time to allow the chips to raise.

During times of Trend Obscurity, we need to get a feel for what is going on in the game and allow our chip levels to flow with that.

Bet Selection

We should always base our view of the selections on the Main number.  In general, we should strive to be on the selection that has the highest number of hits on the Main number.

The initial selection that we chose may not be the best for the ongoing game.  If it is the best one, we will win our 100 units very quickly.

The first sign that our selection may not be the best, is that other Main selections appear that are tied with our selection for the number of hits (the red numbers, highlighted in yellow on the pixel-felt).  Obviously when other Main selections have a higher hit total than ours, we are not currently on the best selection.

Switching Selections

The number one cause of large amounts of debt, is staying on a selection that is getting hits infrequently, while other selections are getting them frequently.

The number two cause of large amounts of debt, is switching to another selection that does not obtain hits frequently.

So there is a catch-22 with switching selections.  This is where we need to be careful about when we switch.  We need to know exactly why we are switching and be familiar with the various statistical aspects of the available selections.

Secondary Indicators

The reason these indicators are called "secondary" is because they should not be the ultimate reason why we are playing a selection; instead they should help us to analyze available selections, to get an idea of how the game is flowing.

Support Indicator -- This is the first column in the 1st set of columns (to the left), in white.  This shows the total number of hits that have been received from the 8 neighbors of our Main number.  We will always notice that some selections will have better neighbors than other selections.  Ideally, we want our Main number to be the highest, with the highest support number but it doesn't always work out that way.  The Support Indicator is important because it shows that we are likely to receive hits while we are waiting for the Main number to hit; in the final analysis, it is not the neighbor hits that are the most important, its the Main number that counts the most.  However, We should be very careful about switching to a selection that has low support indicators because if the Main number goes to sleep, we are likely to have a streak of misses.

Current Gapping Indicator -- This is the next column over and shows how long the selection has gone without a single hit; expectation is about 1 hit every 4-5 spins.

Last Gapping Indicator -- This is the yellow column and is very important because it shows how long the Main number has gone without a hit.  I will usually hesitate before switching to a selection with a Main number that is currently gapping (more than 36 spins without a hit).  Conversely, if I have been considering switching to a selection but have not done so because of the Main number gapping, when the Main number hits, with all other indicators not preventing it, I will usually switch to that selection at that time.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 19, 2019, 10:32:08 PM
Hot Groupings

All hot numbers will show up on the pixel-felt in red, highlighted in yellow.  We will usually find two competing groups of hot Main selections, with hot support numbers.  The idea is to be on the group that has the best combination of both; but remember, its the Main number that counts the most -- the highest one possible.

One thing we want to be aware of, is that there are individual Main numbers that have all of their support numbers hitting less than expectation, while there is a Main selection that doesn't have as many hits (but is still above expectation) but is has excellent support (all lit up in yellow) with only 1-3 below expectation.  The individual Main number is likely to be a death trap until its neighbors wake up (if they ever do).

So we have to keep an eye on this flow as it is happening on the pixel-felt.  We need to know what is going on, identifying the strongest areas which are in competition and strive to be on the best area, switching at the most advantageous times and for the right reasons.

Trend Indicators

These are the dark red numbers (in the lower display) and the light grey (or highlighted) numbers in the bottom center of each Main selection (on the pixel-felt).  These indicators can be the best way to determine when we should switch to a superior selection.

We have to face it when our selection is dead and being out-performed but we also don't want to be switching all the time and getting whipsawed.  So, we get a hit on our lame selection and notice that the selection we have been wanting to switch to (has a higher Main number and/or better support numbers) is 300+ and our selection is 175 -- GREAT time to switch!

These trend indicators are excellent money makers.  They show us the times when it is most likely that we will receive a hit (or streak of hits) in the next spin.  They measure hit disparity in number groups; the larger the disparity, the more likely the group will hit, regardless of when it hit last.

Here is my latest advice on how to use the trend indicators to recoup a large amount of debt:

Debt counter-swings are simply based on expectation, which is based on the coups:spins ratio.  So if we coup small, we will hit a counter-swing before we can recover (that's not bad if it is our intention and we are prepared for it; i.e. set up recovery basecamp) but if we coup large, we will gain more recovery profit before the swing can manifest.

It was with this idea in mind that I started to attack the 2300 units and I discovered that there is a way to time our attacks, in anticipation of an upcoming profit swing (a streak of hits).

The process is a little bit like a sniper that has to adjust for distance and windage.  Sometimes the target suddenly moves and he has to start all over; its better to make a 50 unit mistake rather than a 500 unit mistake.

What I do is watch the trend indicators to see if I were to miss my next attack, that I would be in a very strong trending position, to expect a hit streak.  High future numbers aren't quite enough, if a significant portion of the board is higher, so I need to have an edge over at least half of the other selections.

So if those conditions are met, I start collecting hits and retaining them, in preparation for the Main number to hit or a strong series of side hits.  If those conditions are not met, I simply reduce all chips to 1 unit after every hit that is close to profit; slippage of 25 or 50 units is OK -- I am looking to coup large.

Once in proper conditions, I can just keep pressing the attack and rack up the huge wins, stopping the attack when conditions are no longer favorable.  The system automatically gains very largely and quickly on the profit:debt ratio, IF, we are in the proper statistical environment; if we are surrounded by higher trend indicators when we need our coups, things might not go as we would want.

Also, we don't need to recover the full 2300 all in one massive attack.  We can take several very large coups, lowering our risk with each success.

Lost Sessions

This post is about accepting the offer that roulette makes to us.

When I grinded back some 750 units and reached 250 units, I had a little conversation with myself about ending the session.  I felt very confident with how the situation looked, betting number 32 (see main below).

It turned bad and ultimately, I ended up driving it to 1300 units while number 14 slowly crept into top position; roulette often makes large moves by creeping.  I eventually found it proper to switch to 14 and grinded it down to 392 units and decided to end the game, accepting the loss.

The general rule is that when we have grinded some 75% of the debt back and the game was seriously out of control (at least 500 units or more), it makes sense to accept these offers because there is a reason for the session being out of control that is not usually seen in regular play.

A large gain in profit recovery is likely to be replaced by a large counter-swing.

Recovery Basecamp

Let's say we have an all-time high debt of 500 units and we grind it back down to 375 units and have weak trend indicators for our selection.  This is a great time to "set up camp" and lower the chips to 1 unit, while we wait for our trend indicators to pick back up; until they do, we can keep resetting the chips.

This is a great way to recover large debt in stages, by minimizing debt swings until we know the probability of gaining a series of hits is stronger.

This is not easy writing all of this on a timer and not being able to edit it all into a single whole.  As it is, I must go out for awhile.  I will see what else I need to add when I get back.

Like for instance, when to lower chips by 1/2 instead of resetting completely...
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 19, 2019, 11:43:10 PM
Third, excellent explanation, thank you kindly Sir! Your writing style remember me about Reyth, and he was such a softwer genius too.

I have few questions:

When you said, that it is good option to switching from trend indicator 175 to TI 300+, can I ask why? If TI shows us 175, means, this is quet hot selection, why to switching to one gapping selection, which who knows how long will be gap. Also you recommended hot areas (main number+support number) betting, so now what is more likely to watch or choose to bet ? Gapping or hot areas?

You said, that when we are in recovery mode, we reset the chips back to 1 unit, but why? If it hits, we generate low money, and we climb up very slow then. Doesnt a better idea to switch when we are in rec. mode?

Once again thank you all your work, I will study, and test it more. I saved all posts.

Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 20, 2019, 01:03:46 AM
Another perception:

I tried your softwer in live roulette dealer, I closed the door with 74 unit profit, with 3 switch, but I remarked, that if our corner numebrs hit, your CN number unit size not increased, that is why it showed just 74 profit. Jesper said, that if our middle corner number hit, we increase the main numebr too, not? In my testings if I hit my main number, I always closed the door with profit. In this case I had hit on CN, but only 74 overall profit was. (I think, because the debt/profit ratio was showed 0 74)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 01:21:07 AM
When you said, that it is good option to switching from trend indicator 175 to TI 300+, can I ask why? If TI shows us 175, means, this is quet hot selection, why to switching to one gapping selection, which who knows how long will be gap. Also you recommended hot areas (main number+support number) betting, so now what is more likely to watch or choose to bet ? Gapping or hot areas?

You are right, if we are already on the best selection, we shouldn't chase the trend indicators but lower our chips to wait instead.  My example was if we are on a lower performing selection and we finally get a hit and see that our current selection is at 175 and the selection we actually want to be on is at 300+, that makes it easy to make the decision to switch because there is a known higher probability for a superior selection to hit.

Our goal is stop betting at the tail end of a hot streak and start betting at the tail end of a cold streak.  This is what the indicators help us to do but keep something in mind, just because there is a high trend indicator, doesn't mean that the selection is cold or gapping, it means that the disparity of hits within the group is great, which can be a very different thing.

Quote
You said, that when we are in recovery mode, we reset the chips back to 1 unit, but why? If it hits, we generate low money, and we climb up very slow then.

If there are large gains we should lock in the profit by lowering the chips back to 1, UNLESS we still have high trend indicators in which case we should press the attack (but should strongly consider lowering by 1/2 as well).  When the trend indicator starts to pick back up, we can allow the chips to raise again.  Getting hits with low chips is not a bad thing but a very good thing is raising chips when we know we will have a higher probability of a hit or a streak.

Quote
Doesnt a better idea to switch when we are in rec. mode?

Switching is best when 1) We know we are on an inferior selection & 2) We have every reason to believe that the superior selection we switch to is likely to continue to be hot.

Jesper said, that if our middle corner number hit, we increase the main numebr too, not?

I am easily confused but according to my understanding, if a middle corner (a middle corner is a side) hits, we raise both chips by 1, but that does not include the center chip.  The only time the center chip is raised is if we get a Main hit.

Of course we are free to change the system to our liking and if we are going to do extra raising, it SHOULD be on the center number! ;)

Grats on successfully switching for a win! :D

Did you know that you automatically created a text file that you can share with us?  Its called Jesper_Sessions.txt
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 09:10:13 AM
Well, here is my first real money session!  It was more of a whimper than a bang, netting only 2 units for 1.5 hours of work (roughly 225 spins) but I still consider it a huge victory for being able to take a game that was out of control, harness the proper bet selection & create a downward trajectory for the debt, protecting against potential massive losses.

Even though the profit was negligible overall, for a good number of spins, the profit potential was still quite large.  Most games will not take this path and I expect my earnings per hr/spins to go up!

Selections 23 (especially) and 14 ended up sleeping pretty hard and the Support Indicators for Selection 11 (along with the top hit count & being adjacent to my 'current selection'), made it easy to switch, which won the game.

One thing I have noticed is that the output file should display at least the trend indicators for all the main selections.  I will add that now, in preparation for a future release.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 20, 2019, 10:24:05 AM
Third,

In this case, maybe we could always do just ro find 400+ trend indicators, and just put them money waiting to being hot?

This reducing chips to 1 it seems to me like trow money flr roulette for free, because, or at least a coin flipping, because we have just waiting. In the softwer, after my first hit, I wanted to delete my bets, but it cant be allow? I had not found good betting opportunity, that is why I wanted to stop and waiting, and not reducing, and waiting, because our money is on the table maybe not on the best selection.

Where can I find this text?

About the graphs, this is good things, but this graph not show te profit, just drowdowns, and not after every spin. I know that it is hard to make, and please not argue with me, but in my opinion a little bit defficient, and in this case I feel that it is unneccessary, but if it can be improved, would be more fantastic! Good job was !
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 10:30:38 AM
To cease betting, hit "b" on the keyboard and enter "-1" and the betting will cease even though the bet will still be displayed; try it out! :D

The text file is located in the qb64 folder.  I sort the folder by file type, to make it easier to find things.

Yes, we can hunt the pretty color trend indicators but I believe in Jesper's system as a whole (it has many strengths and only one weakness) and so I use the trend indicators to compliment his system, reducing risk and sometimes, in the proper situation, pressing for large profits.

I just won 142 units in my second game!!! :D

Code: [Select]
`*07-20-201904:33:35 26  15  15  28  13  34  4  27  4  25  19  8  10  30  5  21  16  2  22  9  12  20  22  11  17  25  1  21  2  19  15  9  21  30  32  31  34  31  0  2  19  29  6  0  1  23  8  4  7  24  29  1  36  9  23  26  13  23 User bets selection 23  16  1  28  27 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 11 Spins: 62 5-2028-24411-26214-32817-29020-24723-18726-13729-19532-2495-2028-24411-26214-32817-29020-24723-18726-13729-19532-249User resets chips 11  9  15  23 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 66 5-2288-23111-21514-29117-29220-27523-21526-16529-23132-2855-2288-23111-21514-29117-29220-27523-21526-16529-23132-285User resets chips 0  5  34  17  12  36  13  8  27 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 36 Spins: 75 5-2298-18211-20314-26117-31220-31123-28326-23329-29932-3155-2298-18211-20314-26117-31220-31123-28326-23329-29932-315User resets chips 13  12  3  23 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 79 5-1878-21211-23014-28817-34520-33423-30626-25629-33532-3515-1878-21211-23014-28817-34520-33423-30626-25629-33532-351User resets chips 9  1  29  33  4  7  1  3  19 HIT LL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 36 Spins: 88 5-1458-20511-25914-36917-37920-36823-34026-30629-30232-3185-1458-20511-25914-36917-37920-36823-34026-30629-30232-318User resets chips 33  31  11  25 HIT LR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 47 Spins: 92 5-1818-21311-26714-37717-41520-40423-31026-27629-21432-2965-1818-21311-26714-37717-41520-40423-31026-27629-21432-296User resets chips 27 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 43 Spins: 93 5-1908-22211-27614-38617-42420-41323-30126-26729-20532-3055-1908-22211-27614-38617-42420-41323-30126-26729-20532-305User resets chips 8  23 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 95 5-1888-22011-27414-40417-44220-41523-30326-26929-22332-3235-1888-22011-27414-40417-44220-41523-30326-26929-22332-323User resets chips 10  5  21 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 6 Spins: 98 5-1868-13511-21814-34817-40420-37723-26526-29629-25032-3505-1868-13511-21814-34817-40420-37723-26526-29629-25032-350User resets chips 25 HIT LR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 2 Spins: 99 5-1958-14411-22714-35717-41320-38623-26726-29829-25232-3595-1958-14411-22714-35717-41320-38623-26726-29829-25232-359User resets chips 28  4  14  24 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 4 Spins: 103 5-2148-16311-16114-29117-34720-36923-25026-24229-24932-3565-2148-16311-16114-29117-34720-36923-25026-24229-24932-356User resets chips 20 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 104 5-2238-17211-17014-30017-27420-29623-17726-25129-25832-3655-2238-17211-17014-30017-27420-29623-17726-25129-25832-365User resets chips 12  8  23 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 107 5-2388-15911-15714-29917-30120-31123-19226-26629-28532-3925-2388-15911-15714-29917-30120-31123-19226-26629-28532-392User resets chips*07-20-201905:17:58`
Fixing the lack of space for the trend indicator output and the double display.

As far as betting only 1 unit, I don't consider it "free" because 67 units of win is nothing to sneeze at; I prefer to enjoy lowering risk until I am certain that probability is in my favor.  Having a level of certainty is immensely valuable when recovering large debt.

However, you are right, I am throwing away additional profit and I am sure Jesper will agree with you.  This is why I say he is better at this than I am.  I think we should all await his latest news regarding his lower risk method. :D

I agree that the charting is at its very bare bones, my purpose being only to recover from debt.  Debt recovery is a huge focus of mine. :D

I can at some point make the charting fully functional (swing both ways) and show unit amounts on the screen.  I have never been a huge graphics guy, preferring functionality (I really just want to see the debt/recovery swings) over form (this is a great excuse for being lazy btw!).  ;D :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 20, 2019, 11:26:09 AM

It is obvious, that fkr this method person has to manage the game, and had to understand, and of course skills should have. In the next few days I will test, study it more, doing sessions. The test will be doing in live dealer casino, but with fake money. My bankroll is 1000 units (100 euro) bets are 0,1 euro. Before real money play, I wanna triple, or 5x my bankroll.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 20, 2019, 01:47:00 PM
I have not follow all post here, but my experimental with low real money today gave one bust of 5000 units.

The difference was positive, I had three difficult sessions, two of them got to be well.

Loss by busting at stop loss by 5000  happend once.

The win was  11448 and we exclude the loss and when we have  6448 units win, value 0.1 Euro.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 01:55:32 PM
My bankroll is 1000 units (100 euro) bets are 0,1 euro. Before real money play, I wanna triple, or 5x my bankroll.

I personally believe that 1000 units is not actually enough.  I am playing with 8000 units and I know that I must be cautious.  I have personally seen 2300 units drawdown while playing conservatively (granted, I didn't take a small 250 unit loss after a huge profit swing).

Maybe 1000 units will work with proper taking of losses + earning our way into more security.  I really want to hit like 15000-20000 units so I can double my unit size and really start earning big! :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 01:58:29 PM
The win was  11448 and we exclude the loss and when we have  6448 units win, value 0.1 Euro.

\$64/hr was what lawyers used to make when I was in high school. :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 20, 2019, 02:52:50 PM
Yah they  (legal advice)just carge, at a game the risks are far more. I will continue my experiment!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 03:27:03 PM
Pay your secretary to do the experiment!  8)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 20, 2019, 05:10:47 PM
My nurse do not bookkeeping, but as sometimes she know my gambling, and do not advice My wife can not take care of my present situation, we have a nurse, from abroad.  She do what is needed, and have much understanding,
She got paid as unions here demand.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 20, 2019, 06:12:38 PM
It was for me around +300 units, 2 session played, 1 switching. If I had middle corner hit, I added +1 units on CN number too. First session, when 5 hit I won 235 units, then I swtiched to 26, gain around 65 units.

*07-20-201918:29:05

36  14  6  3  4  27  29  35  16  30  12  3  16  7  19  0  29  4  12  26  8  23  17  31  14  17  16  21  15  2  20  9  5  13  20  30  9  32  8  22  11  7  25  22  10  28  16  8  9  28  29  24  12  6  28  18  15  36  12  13  22  25  31  21  34  9  31  14  35  35  33  36
User bets selection 5

7

HIT LR!

CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1
Debt: 0 Spins: 73

21  15  9

HIT UR!

CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 2
Debt: 9 Spins: 76

32  29 User resets chips

10  17  18  13  16  1

HIT LL!

CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 2 LR 2
Debt: 56 Spins: 84

21  15  36  4

HIT LL/LR!

CN 1 LL 2 UL 1 UR 2 LR 2
Debt: 52 Spins: 88

13  9

HIT UR!

CN 2 LL 3 UL 1 UR 2 LR 3
Debt: 56 Spins: 90

2

HIT LL/UL!

CN 2 LL 3 UL 1 UR 3 LR 3
Debt: 32 Spins: 91

0  6

HIT UL/UR!

CN 3 LL 4 UL 2 UR 3 LR 3
Debt: 17 Spins: 93

5

HIT MAIN!

CN 4 LL 4 UL 3 UR 4 LR 3
Debt: 0 Spins: 94

15  1

HIT LL!

CN 5 LL 5 UL 4 UR 5 LR 4
Debt: 1 Spins: 96

User bets selection 26

User resets chips

18  28

HIT LR!

CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1
Debt: 2 Spins: 98

27

HIT UL/UR!

CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 2
Debt: 0 Spins: 99

3  32  32  23

HIT LL/UL!

CN 2 LL 1 UL 2 UR 2 LR 2
Debt: 9 Spins: 103

13  18  4  22

HIT LL!

CN 3 LL 2 UL 3 UR 2 LR 2
Debt: 39 Spins: 107

33  30

HIT UR!

CN 3 LL 3 UL 3 UR 2 LR 2
Debt: 47 Spins: 109

3  3  9  8  1  15  26

HIT MAIN!

CN 3 LL 3 UL 3 UR 3 LR 2
Debt: 0 Spins: 116

User resets chips

Third as yousaid, when I wanted to stopbetting, I entered b, and -1, but it seems wrote continuosly the debt or it doesnt?  Amd when I switched to another number, I reset the bets to 1, but the profit of 235 deleted, I dont know why. Would be extremely good, better, if this text could show not the dept only, but the profits too! :)
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 20, 2019, 07:46:25 PM
Nice session! :D

Yes, I track my profit on a notepad separately.  Its good because it forces me to recognize where I am so I can be conscious about what is happening.  I do it like this:

[debt]//[profit]

I always have my all time high profit to the right.  I continuously update my debt after each hit.  When my debt reaches 0, I erase the debt number and I add the profit shown in the monitor to the existing profit that I have written; E.G.  I have 0//25 and get a late hit with a debt of 30 and so I update as 30//25.  I then get a hit for a profit of 10 (debt of 0), so I update as 0//35.

I had a game with about a 950 unit drawdown but I used Trend Obscurity to recover it back to 227 units.

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6436)

These are the signs that I noticed and the selection would just keep hitting regardless of what the rest of the board was doing and my balance would hover around the same, even though I had raised chips.  So I would reset completely after every Main hit and raise chips until then.

I took the loss which brought me to +48 units for the day.

I had an offer of about 150 units much earlier but the max debt was only like 300 and so I decided to go for it and got nailed.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 21, 2019, 07:14:36 AM
Ok, since you are using the output file,  here is the latest release which includes the best output file modifications.  Its version 1.31 .
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 21, 2019, 10:58:25 AM
I wish to document an interesting concept concerning the Support Indicators.  As of now, they indicate the support of the neighbors of each Main selection.  Selections directly adjacent to the the top hitting Main selection, will benefit from the shared neighbors with the top Main selection, giving a false high result (because the top Main number is seen as a neighbor to the directly adjacent neighbors).

A different way of calculating the overall effect of all nine numbers in each Main selection, is to total them including the Main center number, divide by 9 and compare the total versus expectation.

I am wondering if I should replace the Support Indicators with this calculation so that we can more accurately identify the overall strongest selections, which is so important to overall success, especially when a session has moved out of control AND can help to limit how for a session goes out of control by cutting short the betting on worse selections.

For now, I will simply add the center number to the overall total calculation and so that white column will represent the total number of hits on each entire 9 number selection.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 21, 2019, 11:48:38 AM
For now, I will simply add the center number to the overall total calculation and so that white column will represent the total number of hits on each entire 9 number selection.

For me is better to watch it separately. Thats way I can see how oerforms the support numbers, but next them I see the CN too. But if we look at the pixel-felt, we see too.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 21, 2019, 09:16:12 PM
Today session was short too, around 40 spins to CN hit. Today I choosed a hot number (20) after 55 spins 5 hit had, whit 250 indicator. Around them was the highest support numbers too with 16. With number 32 was around 420 indicator, and fckn poor supporters. As I said, I play different, then Third, and Jesper, I ad one unit to a center number, when middle corner hit, then investe more to the boom. Before hit, I went down -300 units, and the ratio was showed me around 0.9, so basen on Third notes - it would became her a recovery, so reset chips, but not in my mind. I added +splits. 3-3-3-3 to every splits +1 unit to main number. Maybe I was just lucky, and I played with hard fire, but I get a hit with a profit of 271 units. But I felt, I am close to the hit, so i decided to add splits. Today was the highest debt what I have produced.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 21, 2019, 11:14:24 PM
Ya man, if we can identify the right selection to bet, we will win.  The Law of the Third must produce a section of the felt (in this case 9 numbers) that must be hottest, we just need to find it and bet it.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 22, 2019, 08:50:17 AM
Here is the phenomenon I try to avoid by playing short sessions.  It is called the "shift".  Its when the most favored selection receives a correction and other selections are favored.  There are two possible results:

1) The original selection will return from correction and continue to be most favored
2) The new selection will become most favored while the original selection will start hitting less

It takes time to figure out which way roulette will go.  That's why I like the trend indicators because at least I can attempt to receive a raised hit after a correction before ultimately switching to the new superior selection.

In posting this analysis, I realize that we should also have output for the Support Indicators along with the trend indicators.  This will allow us to see a more detailed picture of the action while we are playing.

Code: [Select]
`*07-22-201902:32:46 6  8  4  0  5  2  26  13  11  6  35  28  4  20  25  0  3  23  32  7  19  6  33  0  10  17  34  20 User bets selection 20  31  35  30  26  12  13  35  24 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 31 Spins: 36 5-239 8-195 11-201 14-197 17-215 20-195 23-174 26-180 29-163 32-148 User resets chips 10  23 HIT LR/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 23 Spins: 38 5-257 8-201 11-207 14-203 17-233 20-193 23-172 26-178 29-181 32-166 User resets chips 33  32  20 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 41 5-284 8-228 11-234 14-230 17-247 20-207 23-186 26-205 29-171 32-156 User resets chips 25  13  2  32  16 HIT LL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 16 Spins: 46 5-291 8-273 11-270 14-220 17-237 20-206 23-204 26-223 29-184 32-196  23 HIT LR/UR!CN 1 LL 2 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 4 Spins: 47 5-300 8-282 11-279 14-229 17-246 20-206 23-204 26-223 29-193 32-205 User resets chipsUser resets debt to 28  11  9  18 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 34 Spins: 50 5-278 8-221 11-218 14-167 17-223 20-183 23-231 26-250 29-220 32-232 User resets chips 34  27  7  30  0  3  25  22 HIT LR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 65 Spins: 58 5-278 8-260 11-257 14-239 17-295 20-197 23-178 26-174 29-202 32-257 User resets chips 5  4  29  21 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 67 Spins: 62 5-213 8-195 11-293 14-275 17-269 20-171 23-152 26-149 29-177 32-232 User resets chips 20 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 63 5-222 8-204 11-302 14-284 17-256 20-158 23-139 26-158 29-186 32-241 User resets chips 36  18 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 1 Spins: 65 5-240 8-222 11-320 14-287 17-259 20-161 23-157 26-176 29-204 32-195 User resets chips 35  24 HIT UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 2 Spins: 67 5-258 8-240 11-338 14-305 17-277 20-148 23-144 26-163 29-222 32-182 User resets chips 12  4  17 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 70 5-276 8-223 11-330 14-253 17-260 20-131 23-171 26-190 29-249 32-209 User resets chips 33  23 HIT LR/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 72 5-294 8-241 11-348 14-271 17-278 20-124 23-164 26-183 29-235 32-195 User resets chips 18 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 73 5-303 8-250 11-357 14-272 17-279 20-125 23-173 26-192 29-244 32-204 User resets chips 17 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 74 5-312 8-259 11-366 14-277 17-284 20-130 23-182 26-201 29-253 32-213 User resets chips 27  18 HIT UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 1 Spins: 76 5-330 8-277 11-384 14-292 17-299 20-145 23-177 26-196 29-248 32-231 User resets chips 0  2  17 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 79 5-323 8-304 11-411 14-314 17-321 20-167 23-204 26-223 29-275 32-258 **********************************************************************SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT SHIFT ********************************************************************** 34  0  36  31 User resets chipsUser resets debt to 47  16 HIT LL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 43 Spins: 84 5-368 8-349 11-456 14-321 17-328 20-174 23-249 26-268 29-266 32-202 User resets chips 23 HIT LR/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 30 Spins: 85 5-377 8-358 11-465 14-330 17-337 20-170 23-245 26-264 29-275 32-211 User resets chips 30  5  15  31  13  10  22 HIT LR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 56 Spins: 92 5-412 8-339 11-339 14-204 17-265 20-199 23-274 26-261 29-300 32-236 User resets chips 26  28  29  29  5  3  31  29  25  30  25  32  13  33  8  35  5  0  12  2  9  36  15  17 HIT LL/UL!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 158 Spins: 116 5-361 8-321 11-301 14-298 17-402 20-378 23-383 26-233 29-168 32-137  21 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 2 UL 2 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 138 Spins: 117 5-370 8-330 11-310 14-307 17-356 20-332 23-337 26-242 29-177 32-146 **********************************************************************END SHIFT END SHIFT END SHIFT END SHIFT END SHIFT END SHIFT END SHIFT **********************************************************************User resets chips 7  28  20 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 81 Spins: 120 5-332 8-292 11-272 14-334 17-326 20-302 23-307 26-244 29-179 32-148  24 HIT UR!CN 2 LL 2 UL 2 UR 2 LR 2 Debt: 73 Spins: 121 5-341 8-301 11-281 14-343 17-335 20-257 23-262 26-199 29-188 32-157 User resets chips 2  21 HIT UL/UR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 65 Spins: 123 5-349 8-319 11-299 14-361 17-347 20-269 23-274 26-217 29-206 32-175 User resets chips 22 HIT LR!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 61 Spins: 124 5-358 8-328 11-308 14-370 17-356 20-246 23-251 26-194 29-215 32-184 User resets chips 20 HIT MAIN!CN 1 LL 1 UL 1 UR 1 LR 1 Debt: 0 Spins: 125 5-367 8-337 11-317 14-379 17-360 20-250 23-255 26-203 29-224 32-193 *07-22-201903:21:57`
I updated the output file to show the last received profit and to now display the Support Indicators along with the trend indictators.

I ended this session at +71 units because the profit generated exceeded the previous profits and there was a correction swing prior to this.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 22, 2019, 09:46:59 AM
Today session was short too, around 40 spins to CN hit. Today I choosed a hot number (20) after 55 spins 5 hit had, whit 250 indicator. Around them was the highest support numbers too with 16. With number 32 was around 420 indicator, and fckn poor supporters. As I said, I play different, then Third, and Jesper, I ad one unit to a center number, when middle corner hit, then investe more to the boom. Before hit, I went down -300 units, and the ratio was showed me around 0.9, so basen on Third notes - it would became her a recovery, so reset chips, but not in my mind. I added +splits. 3-3-3-3 to every splits +1 unit to main number. Maybe I was just lucky, and I played with hard fire, but I get a hit with a profit of 271 units. But I felt, I am close to the hit, so i decided to add splits. Today was the highest debt what I have produced.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: ahlidap on July 22, 2019, 09:47:57 AM
Your writing style remember me about Reyth, and he was such a softwer genius too.

No only that (and many other things), but also the programming language / software he uses...

Third:
(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2829.0;attach=6381)

Reyth:
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 22, 2019, 12:09:35 PM
Wow, even the name is similar.

First, second, third, reyth, fifth.. ;D  But he obviously rejected the statement, that he is the reborn Reyth. Between Similar ways that he is started to post about DrTalos writings like same what Reyth posted before. They were about meeting, but nobody knows, what happened between them, and where disapperared Reyth, and WHY.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 22, 2019, 01:47:42 PM
You are correct.  I had occasion to turn the bets off because I decided to chase a 500+ selection and I noticed that the bet no longer goes into a "none" state.  Let me go in and fix that and release v 1.32 .

So far up 480 units for the day! :D

Repaired and released!

Let's keep Jesper company! :D
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: GIAJJENNO on July 22, 2019, 03:17:26 PM
Thanks Third for the new version. When I hit Enter, the ectrement, increment changes, but nothing shows, what this is mean?

Anyaway, today session was fast too  :)  Before identifying, I always play (test) another systems, so i can concentrate mroe systems separately. I choosed 8 (with 4 hits at spin 75) but had indicator over 370, but also has middle good support numbers (next to them was 5 with also 4 hits, but less support numebr hits). After 20 spins I had only 2 corner hits, and my ratio went under 1. So I decided to add splits +1  between every corner, and +1 unit to main number. Next spin was 8, maybe lucky? +100 units win, close session.
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Jesper on July 22, 2019, 04:25:34 PM
I am quire sure it was luck!
Title: Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
Post by: Third on July 22, 2019, 07:03:15 PM
If it says INCREMENT, if you hit 1-5 the chip levels will increase by 1.  If it says DECREMENT, if you hit 1-5 the chip levels will decrease by 1.  This way you can customize your bet and check the payout as you change the chips. :)