Roulette Life Forum

Roulette Forum => Gambling Philosophy => Topic started by: MickyP on February 24, 2019, 05:27:05 PM

Title: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on February 24, 2019, 05:27:05 PM
Growing or evolving as a roulette player starts off for many players for different reasons but the quest is a common one; to learn how to best improve on the profitability that the game promises.

We latch onto this idea that we can be profitable players because it is achievable and there are many ways to reach that "I have arrived" moment.

There are many factors that players need to take cognizance of and these factors need to be molded into ones personality and approach to the game.

The most common growth point is reducing the amount of numbers you bet on and this is saddled by a bet selection method.
Besides doing the hard work yourself, learning or getting direction from seasoned players is almost imperative. Getting involved in discussions and asking awkward questions then testing new found information against your approach is all part of the evolving package.

Giajjenno is a player that I can use as an example of an evolving player.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on February 25, 2019, 04:58:24 PM
The best way to motivate yourself to learn is to go out and lose some money. It's like a slap in your face. This is the quickest way you can bring yourself back to reality; just go and lose some money.

No player wants to go out and lose money day after day but every player has to learn how to deal with loss. Loss is a part of the game and many fail because when they experience a loss their focus changes from winning to recovering the loss. Chasing losses is a major pitfall.

I think Kav started a thread some time back about losing money.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on February 25, 2019, 07:06:45 PM
The best way to motivate yourself to learn is to go out and lose some money. It's like a slap in your face. This is the quickest way you can bring yourself back to reality; just go and lose some money.

No player wants to go out and lose money day after day but every player has to learn how to deal with loss. Loss is a part of the game and many fail because when they experience a loss their focus changes from winning to recovering the loss. Chasing losses is a major pitfall.

I think Kav started a thread some time back about losing money.
The best way to motivate and learn is to find a mentor. If you have to, pay for some lessons from a proven teacher, word of mouth is the best source. Why spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars trying to learn on live bets, losing, when you can spend those "hard knock" money on education, rather than "learning" on your own losing?

Okay, you can go the losing route. Good luck with that.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: leowls on February 25, 2019, 11:01:21 PM
Because people like to assume they are exceptional? They believe the unfortunate won't happen to them. Experience is often the best way to bring them back to reality.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on February 26, 2019, 06:47:54 AM
There are many "evolving" gamblers out there...99%, according to " losing is good" they are very evolved , but not the fact.
  To become other 1% , best way is to study wheels and practice prediction. No need to lose anything besides the time for learning. .. more you actually learning,  more you evolving.
  Books help, but in general only personal experience in wheel/ ball studies , only hands on learning new things ( excel programming, data collection..ets) is a way to go. Unless you wanna become gambler degenerate,  take written here seriously. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: ignatus on February 26, 2019, 08:02:20 AM
There are many "evolving" gamblers out there...99%, according to " losing is good" they are very evolved , but not the fact.
  To become other 1% , best way is to study wheels and practice prediction. No need to lose anything besides the time for learning. .. more you actually learning,  more you evolving.
  Books help, but in general only personal experience in wheel/ ball studies , only hands on learning new things ( excel programming, data collection..ets) is a way to go. Unless you wanna become gambler degenerate,  take written here seriously.

Yes, Agreed; "There are many "evolving" gamblers out there...99%, according to " losing is good" they are very evolved ,..." Because this is how we learn, this is our HUMAN Nature, "We learn from our mistakes",...There is *No* other way to learn how to play Roulette, to test ALL kinds of possibilities, and see what works, and what does Not work,....etc, This is how we learn, this is how we *Evolve* yes? There is *No* other way around it, this i may say is the *only* way how to learn "how to play/how to become a good/pro Roulette-player"....Yes. This is "Trial and Error", I've mentioned it many times before.....

Cheers
8)

All the Best, and wellwishings ~ignatus 2019 <3
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on February 26, 2019, 08:35:03 AM
Independently where people heading,  they usually arrive.  One goes way of losses, he arrive there, other go way of studies , he arrive to knowledge.
If someone needs " slap" as Mickey says... well , be it. More adequate people do study the game they are about to participate and look for highest advantage possible. 
 As with anything in this world, people get what they are looking for, be it slaps in their face or knowledge about roulette. 
   I would not speak about " human error" nature... there are not that many humans out there. Socrat used to look for a human being during the day, with the torch in his hand ,in the middle of the crowd... nothing changed from that time. Not that many people decide to be human and not many of them are able actually to practice at this BEING HUMAN.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on February 26, 2019, 03:30:38 PM
Thanks for the posts above guys.

MrPerfect said it so well. The destination if we can put it that way is to be in the 1%. This requires much learning and practicing of acquired skills.
The wheel, ball and croupier produce the winning number. Prediction of where the ball will land is essential study if you are aiming for that 1%.

Learning how to deal with loss remains an important aspect of the game.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on February 26, 2019, 04:20:09 PM
Learning how to deal with loss remains an the most important aspect of the game.

FTFY.

Ask Mr. Perfect when he packs up his office and leaves a loser and he will tell you.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on February 26, 2019, 05:18:41 PM
Any of these will make me run away:
 1. Situation change in general ( new wheel)
2. Very different conditions
3. If session bank lost and l didn't understand why.
   Rest of it l will fight with all l got.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: mr j on March 02, 2019, 03:06:34 AM
Geez, I'm late to this topic. Most (not all) here, play roulette (B&M) as a hobby/part time, and message boards are their MAIN influence into the game. Myself, its the opposite. The message boards are nothing more than a hobby. Dont need them, they are pretty useless to me. Years ago? Different story.
Most here dont want to learn. Meaning what Ken? They have a PARTICULAR style they play and "their way" is the correct way. They have no interest opening their ears and CERTAIN other players are growing tired of this and posting less,,,,,,,myself, Mike, Turbo, Gizmo etc. etc. etc. Point being, I think our attitudes as of late, f**k it, just let you guys implode on yourselves. (lol). I lose nothing in my wallet watching you guys chase the second column with mild progression but only after the magical TRIGGER appears.

You guys (not all) are going in a never ending circle. It took some of you five years to DROP down from the ECs to column bets. Five years is waaaaay too long people. That should of taken six months (max) and then after that, dropping more and more numbers. A lot of you are following (like sheep) the wrong people here and they are leading you to the slaughter. Two very very very important points >>>> A) Your method must be PLAYABLE under all B&M real life casino situations. B) If you cant make a living from your method, then you have trash.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 03, 2019, 09:24:31 AM
Two valid and extremely important points you made Ken.

Understanding and dealing with loss will guide "some" players to success; obviously not the recreational type (lego blocks and RNG computer/slot based roulette).
With understanding of loss comes a resistance to using progressions and comes a resistance to betting too many numbers. This is a logical and rational outcomes to game control.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Scarface on March 03, 2019, 05:24:08 PM
MickyP, I agree with you.  It took me losing alot to realize my strategy wasn't working.  From lots of experience at B&M casinos, I started to notice events that always happen.  I noticed that it is a common occurrence that extreme events happen pretty frequently in the short term.  What I mean is that a certain number will stand out and repeat frequently in a short period of time.  Within 2 to 3 hours of play, there will be at least 1 or 2 numbers that will stand out and repeat like crazy...this is why I stay on recent repeaters.

For me, a couple of the most recent repeaters is the way to go.  Forget the hot numbers on the marquee.  The other day I noticed #17 was the 2nd hottest number on the marquee (based on the last 200 spins).  But I have been playing for at least 100 of those spins, and never seen #17 hit at all....this tells me that #17 must have hit many times in a short period of time. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 04, 2019, 06:10:57 AM
Thanks for your contribution Scarface. I notice similar events on repeaters as well...lol. Like Ken says "it's staring you in the face". All you have to do is go out and get it.
Players should look at the possibilities roulette offers with eyes wide open.

My history as a player involves betting many numbers and using progressions but I have moved on from that thanks to "understanding" my losses. This is how I learnt the valuable lessons plastered on this forum by the likes of Mike, Real, Mr J (Ken), MrPerfect, DrTalos, Palestis, Dobbelsteen and a number of other players. These guys each contributed to my evolving process by my looking more deeply into what they were actually saying.
I must say that I still use progressions but very selectively and is purpose driven.

In my time of playing many numbers I still managed to profit most of the time but a loss cut very deep and set me back many hours of play. By playing few numbers and flat betting or using a very mild progression the same profit target is reached in much less time and this is what excites me about the changes I've made in my game approach.

I don't chase the game but I do follow the habits of it and I play selectively with limited exposure of chips on the table.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Scarface on March 04, 2019, 01:38:33 PM
MickeyP, I see nothing wrong with covering many numbers to start with.  I do it sometimes myself.  As long as its hitting, its good.  Problem just comes when it stops hitting.  This is when I gradually play less numbers.  Maybe start out covering 5 double street (30 numbers), then go to 5 quads...then 5 streets...then 5 splits...etc.  Basically, parachute down after a loss.  Eventually, you will get down to covering a couple numbers, but the good thing is you don't have to raise your wager.  It can be somewhat of a grind, but sometimes good for 30-40 units before it goes down  :) . 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 04, 2019, 06:50:26 PM

I agree with Greek "Why do you spend so much money on education, rather than" learning "on your own losing?".

I was 25 years old when I learned the counting of blackjack cards (with a good book at 30 €). After several months of training, I tried with 10 chips. I was quickly troubled by the real game and I counted badly. Second experience is a little better but not correct enough. So, I paid a jobless person to be my dealer (because it was silly for me to learn in a casino losing my money, because I do not have a player mentality). I also trained with another "blackjack-man". Then I counted up without playing and it was ok. I practiced this game successfully. My apprenticeship did not enrich the casinos, I gave a little work to a person and it is a beautiful experience. I say then those who don’t have a gambling mentality can easily experience casino games and become very good technicians without actually losing money.

There is also a huge problem for people who are learning live at the casino. They learn to enjoy playing without winning. Their brain learns to have an easy and effortless pleasure. So, when they start losing too much, how can they otherwise condition their brains? very difficult, the brain does not want to make efforts since it has fun easily. So, players cannot easily make very serious searches. This can be seen on forums with very simple, fun methods that are discussed at length without doing any effort (testing). I say this truth so that some players change some bad habits. Gismotron left on this forum documents on Pavlovian packaging ...
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 05, 2019, 05:23:11 AM
The title of the thread is growing/evolving as a roulette player which should indicate that there is already a foundation as a player. The first part of your post Stratege talks about being a new player and being overwhelmed by activity at the tables.

Your second part is dedicated to recreational players and I don't buy it as a point of discussion relevant to this topic.

Players will go through the normal drill and excitement of finding a promising system but will not test it for themselves nor will they try and improve it if they did run some tests. Players rush out to win win win and are mostly brought down to earth with lose lose lose.

Remember that it is always easier to judge with the benefit of hindsight in your pocket. No person anticipates losing large amounts that goes to the tables with a system/method tried and tested by the player and others (forum members). The player expects to win because he has blindly put his faith into a "winning system/method. It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play.

If a player really wants to go out and win win win then from the very beginning they should study AP and master it to a point where win win win is possible.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 05, 2019, 07:08:47 PM

I answer to Mr. MickyP who does not see the interest of my message!

I explained that it is an illusion to believe that a player must go through a loss phase to understand and finally win. To say the opposite is to induce the players to lose and to think that it is a fatality to cross before understanding and winning. On forums, members say they have up to 20 or 30 years of roulette experience is not yet found a winning method (and some are programmers or search with a programmer). Losing is absolutely not a miracle recipe to win then. Curiously, these "researchers" buy very few methods but agree to lose, like idiots, money against some emotions with roulette. So, it's just not healthy to suggest to beginners that losing is the inevitability to go through before winning. My blackjack experience demonstrates quite the opposite (and I have shown that we can "grow / evolve to a" winning "level without actually losing money on the gaming tables. The logic of a player mentality that lost and still lost is to say that he has gained experience of the game. Explanation: on a psychological level the process of "rationalization" allows a person to relativize his experience to keep a positive image on his behavior.

I also point out to Mr. MickyP that I did not talk about "recreational" players, but about forum members who are looking for a method. In reality, your "methodology", according to your quote, seldom provides a solution "It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play.". The reason for this is that a player is rarely a theoretician and even less often a designer. In addition, a history of spins we find on the net, no need to watch a roulette and a ball, since we must watch the manifestations of the hazard ! Some members on this forum tend to say (explicitly or implicitly) that we should not buy methods from authors and also say that it is by losing to the game that we will find, as if by magic, a way to beat the roulette ! My position is absolutely opposite. Buy books from serious authors. Test their theories, combine the theories of several authors, and invent a solution that does not exist in books. We can “possibly” do this work without losing a single unit of his bankroll !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 05, 2019, 07:56:32 PM
I must applaud you on the mumbled objection to my clear response. You do it every time and it only gets better and better. See what experience does?

Now, to address a very important issue but I'm not sure whether to question you or just correct you and hope you fall in line. My pseudonym on the forum is MickyP and not Mr MickyP. Correct the manner you address me or I will have to call you Master Strategy, lol.

Please go back and read your post above. You will note that you have made some very absurd points supposedly based on psychology and you claim to have proved a point "and I have shown that we can "grow / evolve to a" winning "level without actually losing money on the gaming tables.". No, you have simply tried to justify your own experience as a universally acceptable norm and any thinking person can spot that a mile away.

In the case of war breaking out both sides believe they can and will win but we know that one will win and one will lose. In rare cases a truce is called.

It is common for people to believe or have untested faith in their ability to win (that's psychology). It is for this reason that gambling is so attractive. The test is more in our untested faith than the surety of a winning method.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 05, 2019, 08:17:57 PM
Strategy, you wrote; "The reason for this is that a player is rarely a theoretician and even less often a designer. In addition, a history of spins we find on the net, no need to watch a roulette and a ball, since we must watch the manifestations of the hazard ! "
And in the same paragraph you end with these words;
"My position is absolutely opposite. Buy books from serious authors. Test their theories, combine the theories of several authors, and invent a solution that does not exist in books. We can “possibly” do this work without losing a single unit of his bankroll !"

Thank you for the correct use of the word invent.

Do you not see the contradiction in your statements?

By the way, the recorded history I was referring to is a player recording his own games for evaluation after the fact.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 05, 2019, 08:47:08 PM
"A man in eastern Arizona was killed after he asked another man to fire a gunshot at the bulletproof vest he was wearing, officials say."

He is an example of testing something live gone wrong. In this case, the person lost his life. Playing roulette live with real money on a method or system that has not been tested, also have it's consequences. What a price to pay to grow and evolve as a roulette player. It's unnecessary to lose money when trying to grow and evolve as a roulette player.

I understand players will lose money when they play roulette. They don't know any better. A professional knows how to avoid such pitfalls. It's just common sense. Invest in education, take lessons from a professional, read books, whatever it takes to "invent" or formulate ones own approach, if not adopt someone else's winning method. Certainly, do not practice live and lose money. If it's not tested properly. It may not be bullet proof.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 05, 2019, 09:26:16 PM

Greek, you wrote a good message but also a beautiful message. It is fluid, bravo! In terms of ideas we think the same thing. I have "invested a lot" in the books, so I know that alone in front of a roulette wheel I could not have understood everything I know now. I had a mentor, I was in contact with talented authors. And without this culture, I would not have become creative, I would still be looking for serious bases without having a good judgment to "sort the good grain"!

Mr. MickyP, there is no contradiction in my message. I have already said that any scientific researcher will study the theories already known. He does not reinvent knowledge, otherwise he will spend his life to understand what others have already verified. A player who studies at home what he did in front of a roulette is good, but there are few players who know how to lead to a solution. It is a very uncertain way. Studying the knowledge of others is much more certain if we have an analytical potential. Everyone does not have enough abstract intelligence. Moreover, on the forums, many need a member to give a structure before embarking on a path that suggests a chance of success, otherwise they do not have the energy (motivation) to make uncertain efforts. It's normal, a good idea gives convictions and energy.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 05, 2019, 10:59:15 PM
Master Strategy, You did contradict yourself but made up for it in your following post so I'll let the dribble slide for now.

Greek, a good post.

Gentlemen, if you focus on the whole thread and use my opening post as a starting point you will see that we are all basically saying the same thing. I just emphasized the point of dealing with loss which is a part of the game.
I do not dispute the fact that there are some good books that may help players better understand the game, especially the math of the game but I do not promote the purchase of a book simply because it was published. Too many scams and rubbish out there. The point that I mentioned is that seasoned players are a vital source of "good" information for players who wish to improve their game. They may recommend a worthwhile book to purchase.

This thread can be considered a worthy read for players as there are some strong points of view posted that may help some players evaluate their current position and inspire a way forward.

What I have said on many occasions is that testing and evaluation must be thorough before real money is waged. Logic, isn't it?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 06, 2019, 05:09:30 PM

Mr. MichyP, be explicit. If you say that I contradicted myself, please quote the information. Don’t keep things from the past for later, when the context is gone. Live in the present, without projecting yourself into a hypothetical future, in which you will use arguments against me ("I'll let the dribble slide for now"). You project yourself into a future that is not harmonious, you "know" in advance that you will use something against me! Your takeover scenario is not finished. In reality, you have little to say about roulette, so you fill with a confused speech. Say things entirely. Members and visitors read you, think about your duty of coherence.

Observe your inconsistencies (it would be better). We don’t all say the same thing. Greek and I have another experience. We don’t have this fatalistic view that you have, as well as some of the other members: "It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play" Your last post would like to forget your quote above. But the difference is enormous, between the acquisition of the authors' knowledge and the uncertain personal observation. In this single quote from you, I do not agree on 2 points (no need to lose money at roulette to learn, the personal analysis of his spins is a very uncertain way if we do not have a theoretical luggage).

I add that I did not find anything useful on roulette with the mathematical books. On the other hand, the books on roulette written by mathematicians are of incomparable utility. At the end of your last message you contradict your quote (above written the day before yesterday). In fact, you say that you have to test long before going to play real money. It's pure contradiction! You would be nice then not to invent contradiction in my messages and observe how you want to create confusion to try to change your word. You can read about it "The Peter Pan Syndrome". But changing your speech shows that you change your belief in a fatality of loss to learn. Presenting such a fatality to beginners was distressing, so thank you for changing your speech !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 06, 2019, 08:47:28 PM
Hahaha...a double dose of dribble with extra cream.

Stratege you sound like a desperate pastor so I'll add the title Pastor to your new improved name "Master Strategy" (note the correct spelling) So, Pastor Master Strategy (PMS for short) lets continue to the lesson, shall we.

You said; "a player is rarely a theoretician and even less often a designer" meaning that MOST players do not have the capacity to study and design roulette systems or methods but obviously you have that gift because you are an elite holy man; not so PMS?
You then say; "Test their theories, combine the theories of several authors,
and invent a solution that does not exist in books." This means that players CAN study and design systems and methods.

Sounds like you are saying players are stupid then you say they are clever. That's a contradiction and it occurred in one post and in one paragraph for that matter.

See why I relate your long winded posts to dribble? You use words that makes it difficult for some to follow what you are trying to say. All your long winded posts come to nothing. The only thing I can see from your posts is an attempt to diplomatically make a stand against an aggressor (me). A poor attempt at trying to create a Gandhi moment for yourself.

Anyway let me continue with the lesson. If you bothered to read my opening post on this thread you will see that there is much common ground with what others have posted. My story remains the same but I did include a little extra on losing. Loss is an integral part of roulette. Every system/strategy/method will encounter losses in the course of play and I simply stated that a player (with an established roulette foundation) should understand loss as part of the game.
You can prepare yourself in the holiest of ways and no matter what system/strategy/method you play, you will experience loss at the table. There is no getting around this fact.

My words "It is unfortunately through experience at the table and a recorded history of play that a player discards what does not work for him and develops a winning approach suited to their style of play"  Great words, I should quote them more often.

You see, even with players that have tested an approach at home, when they play it in a casino at a table they will experience the ups and downs of each new sequence of numbers played. Players should keep record of casino play and evaluate their performance at home. With this comes small adjustments, new rules and maybe scrapping an old rule or two. It;s called tweaking the system/strategy/method or approach. This is a reaction mostly to loss but can also be to improve or increase wins. Players are or should be in constant alert mode and should always evaluate their games after the fact. As Giajjenno stated "Learning never stops". I agree with him.

PMS, do you get to light a candle every time you think you have outsmarted this fox? I will tell you the sky is blue and you will disagree because in your astral travel adventures you saw that the whole planet is blue not only the sky. That is not the same as thinking outside the box. Hope I cleared up your confusion to a point but if not I am willing to explain myself using small powerful words.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 07, 2019, 01:14:10 AM
 :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 07, 2019, 07:13:32 PM

Mr. MickyP, you have a lot of imagination to deduce so many things in my messages, without understanding the realism of my words. I offer you a nice contradiction of mr j in this discussion (March 02) "If you cannot make a living from your method, then you have trash". Two weeks ago, Third said he was paying his bills with his winnings from the game. So, mr j said it's not healthy to do that. Let's move on to your message. Yes, I say that players rarely have the ability to build a winning method (at a professional level). Few players have five main conditions: having a scientific culture, knowing how to use a computer, having time to think and test like a "pro", having a personality compatible with research (without amateurism), and especially having a culture on the roulette (know theories and relevant strategies). I do not have a special gift that others would not have. If I had this gift, I would not have studied hundreds of books about games. I cover pretty well the 5 conditions mentioned. Studying several types of games is also an important element in shaping one's mind. Players can actually build methods (losers) as much as they want. The reality is that players who succeed in finding a winning method are very rare, but a player may have Luck.

Most players have an obstacle in front of them: the passion of the game. This passion seeks strong emotions. This is a problem, because scientific reasoning becomes difficult. I have already said that a brain that learns to have fun in the game, will hardly make intense intellectual efforts for research. When the casino becomes a temple of pleasure, why would a brain make efforts (thus a job) that will take away some of this pleasure? What I say here is a big cause of failure in finding a (winning) method. Insidiously, the game can become a way for the player to unleash impulses and out of this scenario is very difficult. If I compare my evolution, for two years for example, with other members on other forums (which I know), the difference is huge. The reason for this is that I have acquired a good foundation to think "enough" correctly, so I do "enough" regularly small discoveries (which improve my strategy).

Mr. MickyP, see also that you say very ordinary things (losses are part of the game ...), you speak as an amateur. You then say that the player analyzes his last spins and modifies his method. Do you know what are the consequences of such a practice on a pro bankroll? Your lyrics are too basic to suggest that you are serious about roulette. By the way, you said in a discussion that your goal is to earn 9 daily bankrolls in 20 days. In general, a daily bankroll represents 1/6 or 1/10 of the total bankroll of the speculator. Your winnings are then exceptional, far superior to other "pro" players. But you are not the only one to say strange, mysterious, or hard to understand things. For example, mr j said he had reached his goal of winning the day quickly. He had gone home after 25 minutes. This concept of goal gain / loss applies to losing methods to avoid losing too quickly, it is a way to delay bankruptcy.

A coherent game consists of setting a game time, a number of spins or a number of attacks in a specific time ... When we have a winning method, we have a % of units won according to an average of number of spins played. Stop and go home very quickly, no sense, it is a waste of time in the car and to prepare. The average of winnings is therefore required according to a number of spins played, and quickly leaving the table is contrary to a good profitability of his time (if we have enough to play again or to wait for an attack and lead it to Ideally, we could play day and night, non-stop, with our full bankroll and realize our average gain (or transmit the bankroll to his partner so he continues to play) .I emphasize this detail because that when we test a method, the gains are in the continuity of the test. We will not find favorable cuts in the game that sets a goal gain / loss. Good I know, we are on a forum, so some members say win at roulette, but their lyrics are sometimes far removed from the reality of the winning game.

Here is Mr. MickyP, you repeat evidence thinking that this is a science and you say strange things, such as this fatality of loss, or also get 9 daily bankrolls per month (the Hazard is not monthly). Observe also that the "supposed" contradictions that you find in my messages concern very superficial things. Note also that you "understand" very badly the depth of my messages. I think you have done too little research on roulette to not understand me and to insist on things of a beginner level.

My message is very long, I apologize in front of the members, but there are some very important things that are discussed (the exaggeration of the gains of the game that deceive the beginners, the objective gain / loss which is not coherent, to find a winning method is not as simple as it says, losing a lot of money to learn is not a mandatory scenario ...).  ;)
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: mr j on March 07, 2019, 08:54:03 PM
"Third said he was paying his bills with his winnings from the game. So, mr j said it's not healthy to do that">>>> I specifically SAID, dont pay your bills with your winnings?? What post was that?
 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: mr j on March 07, 2019, 08:56:47 PM
"For example, mr j said he had reached his goal of winning the day quickly. He had gone home after 25 minutes. This concept of goal gain / loss applies to losing methods to avoid losing too quickly, it is a way to delay bankruptcy.

A coherent game consists of setting a game time, a number of spins or a number of attacks in a specific time ... When we have a winning method, we have a % of units won according to an average of number of spins played. Stop and go home very quickly, no sense" >> This is nothing more than your opinion. I dont agree with it. I dont have to agree with it.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 12:34:30 AM
Growing or evolving as a roulette player starts off for many players for different reasons but the quest is a common one; to learn how to best improve on the profitability that the game promises.

We latch onto this idea that we can be profitable players because it is achievable and there are many ways to reach that "I have arrived" moment.

There are many factors that players need to take cognizance of and these factors need to be molded into ones personality and approach to the game.

The most common growth point is reducing the amount of numbers you bet on and this is saddled by a bet selection method.
Besides doing the hard work yourself, learning or getting direction from seasoned players is almost imperative. Getting involved in discussions and asking awkward questions then testing new found information against your approach is all part of the evolving package.

Giajjenno is a player that I can use as an example of an evolving player.

My journey with roulette is no different from all of you here. We share one thing in common, we all started playing roulette at sometime. However, we all took different paths. I have studied many years, played and lost as well. Discovery and innovation has led me to "my" Holy grail. You will not find any of my concepts in books, forums, or even the internet.

Evolution is a never ending process. I would have loved to have learned from a mentor. Painfully, I had to read about roulette by going to the libraries, physically hunting down information, no internet in my time. Today, many players take the easy access to information for granted. How has growing and evolving helped me? The information I have, meant I could not trust anyone. So, I had to take classes on how to operate a computer. I had to learn how to work on spreadsheets. Only then, I could create the foundation for the Holy grail.

In the beginning, I sought a roulette mentor, a professional player. There was none. Now, I am a professional roulette player. I am the mentor, leader of a formidable international group of elite professional roulette players. I know, I know, "prove it" you say. I don't have have to, "I think, therefore, I am." René Descartes

Greek
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 01:21:23 AM
If , as you say Greek, you have the Holy Grail how can you also say "" Evolution is a never ending process"?  Whytry to  re- invent the wheel ?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 03:58:23 AM
If , as you say Greek, you have the Holy Grail how can you also say "" Evolution is a never ending process"?  Whytry to  re- invent the wheel ?
Who's trying to re-invent the wheel? In a casino environment, the casinos are always trying to figure out how a person is winning. To counter the casino, by design, I have created a number of Holy Grails. Each are independent in their own right. By switching after two or three spins to a different strategy, immediately after a hit, it makes it very difficult for the casino to know how I am playing. The key is to appear to be a lucky player. At this level, you have to guard yourself from being put on the list.

The spectrum of bets range from 3 bets to 18 bets, thousands of strategies, something a non-professional cannot fathom. Like I said, evolution is a never ending process. There is always someone trying to "one up" for the wrong reasons.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Trilobite on March 08, 2019, 06:33:53 AM

 In a casino environment, the casinos are always trying to figure out how a person is winning....

Oh really?

I don't agree. Unless you play in some little backwater casino where there are only ever 3 or 4 guys playing.

The casino I go to has dozens of roulette tables and an arena set up for 50 or more players, with two wheels spinning.

Believe me, they ain't watching the 350 of us people playing roulette for chump change.

Maybe they watch us upstairs a bit when we're buying in with 10 grand or more, but for the bulk of players they don't give a rat's arse what you win or lose.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Trilobite on March 08, 2019, 06:49:00 AM
Many years ago I played for almost 2 years semi professional, meaning 3-4 times a week. In all that time think I lost my bankroll of $1850 three times. My average take home was $400 per visit...you do the maths.

No, I will .. $400 x 3.5 visits per week x 90 weeks - $5550 = $120450.

No one ever bothered me, EVER. In fact the casino gave me loads of comps worth thousands of dollars.

For a major casino $120,000 loss over two years is not even chump change.

Now if you say your taking $120,000 per night, then you might need to introduce some covert actions, but more likely they will invite you upstairs to the penthouse gaming floor, and even offer to fly you in on the private jet.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 08, 2019, 10:31:43 AM
Wow, was that $5 chips?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 11:52:38 AM
Greek "  I have created a number of Holy Grails  "

"  The spectrum of bets range from 3 bets to 18 bets, thousands of strategies,  "

You truly are a genius Greek.  Congratulations  !

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 01:39:49 PM

Oh really?

I don't agree. Unless you play in some little backwater casino where there are only ever 3 or 4 guys playing.

The casino I go to has dozens of roulette tables and an arena set up for 50 or more players, with two wheels spinning.

Believe me, they ain't watching the 350 of us people playing roulette for chump change.

Maybe they watch us upstairs a bit when we're buying in with 10 grand or more, but for the bulk of players they don't give a rat's arse what you win or lose.

You are right, they don't care about players who grinds and play long sessions, risking their bank. What they care about is someone who has the ability to hit multiple bets in a short period of time and leave.

The reality is I only take what I need. Playing professionally does not mean playing every day, or multiple times a week.  So, it's common for me to do a turn around, fly to Vegas in the morning and leave on the  last flight with the amount I need. It may be once a week, a month, or when ever I need x amount of dollars.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 01:45:42 PM
Greek "  I have created a number of Holy Grails  "

"  The spectrum of bets range from 3 bets to 18 bets, thousands of strategies,  "

You truly are a genius Greek.  Congratulations  !

Really, only a genius can recognize another genius.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 01:57:02 PM
O.K.
I am not a genius so I was wrong to say that you are a genius  .

Obviously , you don't understand   Irony when you read it    :D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 02:33:27 PM
O.K.
I am not a genius so I was wrong to say that you are a genius  .

Obviously , you don't understand   Irony when you read it    :D

There was no irony in your statement. It was sarcasm. So, I replied with sarcasm as well.
Here is the irony. I am a genius.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 02:36:41 PM
 ;D Of course you are a  self- styled genius Greek . There ,there. your carer will look after you . no need to fret !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 08, 2019, 02:57:18 PM
"Here is Mr. MickyP, you repeat evidence thinking that this is a science and you say strange things, such as this fatality of loss, or also get 9 daily bankrolls per month (the Hazard is not monthly). Observe also that the "supposed" contradictions that you find in my messages concern very superficial things. Note also that you "understand" very badly the depth of my messages. I think you have done too little research on roulette to not understand me and to insist on things of a beginner level." More BS posted by PMS

PMS (Stratege), your long winded post tells me that you will soon lose your congregation if you continue preaching such BS.

LOL you say the hazard is not monthly; I know, its on every spin of the wheel. 9 daily bankrolls in 20 days is my monthly target gain. This is normally achieved in less than half the time using NON-HG methods.

The fact remains that you contradict yourself in your writing so superficial or not it remains a contradiction.
The best you can do is to try and play me down instead of getting your dribble in order. Keep your points short and precise and make sure what you want to say can be validated by readers. You sell yourself as a man of profound knowledge and all you offer is a weak opinion of how you perceive the game. Do you actually have any B/M table experience or are you another PC slot based roulette junkie?

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 03:05:45 PM
;D Of course you are a  self- styled genius Greek . There ,there. your carer will look after you . no need to fret !

Statements from my students:

"At this moment trying to absorb all information. This is overwhelming... You Are a genius."

"I will look forward to receiving the spreadsheets. I'm pretty sure your work will blow me away, it always has done. Genius"

"That's clever, you are quite the excel genius"

"Genius work, I believe you really understand roulette in every little detail."

"Your a true genius! Thanks for such wealth of information."

"You are quite a genius. Your methods are so simple yet so powerful!!"

"...a genius with great brain power..."

"Perfect. What an amazing tool!! Genius!"

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 03:09:19 PM
Another 8 Roulette Professionals in the offing  ;D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 03:16:05 PM
Stratege

You must admit that  winning 9 x $2000 every month   is truly amazing. Particularly when using the
D'alembert strategy.  Give credit where credit is due  :D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 08, 2019, 03:21:23 PM
Have a sexual departure Septic tank.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 08, 2019, 03:27:14 PM
Another 8 Roulette Professionals in the offing  ;D

"But wait! There's more!"
Ignorance is not an excuse. A closed mind is a stagnant mind, such a shame.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 08, 2019, 11:23:19 PM
It is said that  only about 1 % of Bettors  make a living  from Roulette . Judged by the number of claims  here they are all members of this forum !  ;D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Trilobite on March 09, 2019, 05:45:33 AM
IMO it would be nowhere near 1%.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 09, 2019, 07:05:04 AM
Many years ago I played for almost 2 years semi professional, meaning 3-4 times a week. In all that time think I lost my bankroll of $1850 three times. My average take home was $400 per visit...you do the maths.

No, I will .. $400 x 3.5 visits per week x 90 weeks - $5550 = $120450.

No one ever bothered me, EVER. In fact the casino gave me loads of comps worth thousands of dollars.

For a major casino $120,000 loss over two years is not even chump change.

Now if you say your taking $120,000 per night, then you might need to introduce some covert actions, but more likely they will invite you upstairs to the penthouse gaming floor, and even offer to fly you in on the private jet.

Trilobite, you gave an sample of your playing history above and I thank you for pointing out the basics of how it's done. In the following post Third asks about the chip size which is a valid question to ask.
To simplify the dispute about my monthly target gain I will simply talk about units. In my case a unit is ten Rand (R10) so my daily bankroll is 200 units and the daily profit goal is 90 units (45% of the daily bankroll) I play up to about 8 sessions a day and each session has a win goal. Most of the time I will exceed the win goal by a few chips and the excess wins add value to how I solve or spread loss recovery into the overall plan. I have discussed this on the forum in the past so players are free to look it up.

The Holy Grail story has caused much heated debate on the forum and I personally do not believe that those who use the term all define it in the same way. The term is used very loosely to define a method with an above average win rate.

PMS talks about getting to the point of playing continuously, even using a tag team so play is not interrupted. We have been down this road too and to better understand this concept a visit to the Dobbelsteen thread will reveal some truths.

Septic is the village idiot or the headless chicken who has no grounds to offer opinions on how to make money from roulette. He is a recreational player (the type PMS refers to that simply mess around at the tables). The 9 blocks introduced to roulette by Septic is actually designed for soccer betting. To date there is not one player using the 9 blocks with success, not in roulette or any other casino game. I don't know if any success has been recorded betting soccer with the 9 blocks.
The players who do earn an income from the game have put in many hours/days/weeks/months/years of hard work and have lost their bankrolls on many occasions but have steadily improved their approach to minimizing losses where gains outweigh losses on a consistent basis. This does not happen overnight.

The Kavouras bet is posted on the forum in its basic form. Kav has studied and put together an advanced use of the basic structure that according to him will educate people on how versatile the method actually is. This work and effort comes at a price from a reputable source, Kav himself.
Sharing is okay to a point but comes a time when not sharing becomes the standard. Why is this? Many different reasons but more common is the manner in which people who would share are treated on public forums.

It is for each player to read, study and research their own approach to roulette. Handouts with pretty promises and false guarantees is what makes a loser.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 09, 2019, 04:17:48 PM
 There are few reasons to not share all.
1. It may be so obvious that really interested player will figure out by himself.
2. These who are unable to figure out by themselves , probably,  wouldn't be able to implement anyway.
3. You never know who reading forums, so it's not wise to educate your enemies. 
4. Sharing is good when not only results are shared,  but workload as well...
5. Someone can absorb only that much as his mind capacity allow. .. there are things that require higher thinking ability to be replicated and implemented. ..
 List goes on....
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: mr j on March 09, 2019, 05:55:24 PM
I love #3
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 09, 2019, 07:20:04 PM

Mr. MickyP, you already told me that if I contradicted you, that I will lose my "congregation"! Your defensive organization comes quickly, does that mean you have few technical arguments against my knowledge? You say to me "You sell yourself as a man of deep knowledge and you are a weak opinion of how you perceive the game". I speak within the limits of the knowledge of serious authors for 100 or 200 years and my own research. I'm not exaggerating anything. But on the forums, many members say they are able to earn a huge%. This is suspect because the chance with these players loses its definition completely and they do better than all the mathematicians who seek notoriety by publishing a way to win. 300 or 400 years ago, the nobles and the rich already hired mathematicians to defeat gambling. For 300 years (and still now) mathematicians have their students work on roulette. There are some interesting leads but the profits announced on the forums are very much higher, these profits are huge, exceptional, incredible, gigantic ... but is it really serious when we realize that these people often have difficulties to talk about simple and consistent roulette techniques? I am not looking for the congregation towards me, I am trying to confront my knowledge and thus to confront the knowledge of others (if this knowledge is true). Only realism is important (this in courtesy). I therefore seek to question the limits of each, and mine too. This is having a research spirit. Roulette is a technical field, all experienced members must be capable of a technical explanation without replacing it with incivility.

I must excuse myself to mr j. The quote: "This thing of" relying on roulette to pay your bills "is unhealthy." Is from MrPerfect (February 21, 2019, topic "1k to 30k challenge 2019). But two contrary opinions ! But two contrary opinions!

For the concept of goal gain, mr j, I say to mr j that this isn't my opinion. It's logic and financial objectivity. But there may be special cases (camouflage strategy, psychological comfort ...). Besides Marigny had a goal gain of a single chip (of huge value). He preferred to go home without playing a second attack. He preferred to return in the day for this second part. If I understand Scepticus, Mr. MickyP wins 9 x $ 2000 in 20 days! With d'Alembert! Here is a MrPerfect message (topic "Progression vs flat betting", page 1) "Progressions should not be used to make money! They are tools to amplify your win, not the tools to achieve it ... it's simply a dead end. 300 years people try, 300 years casinos prosper. 300 years of misery for punters ... They call it entertainment ". In this same topic, Rinad asks for a comparison between flat bet / progression. MrPerfect can not answer, it seems? I then answer precisely with numbers to this question. The result is that d'Alembert is inefficient on a truly winning method (mathematical demonstration)! I then ask Mr. MickyP to explain why he finds an advantage with d'Alembert / flat bet? We all learn something with his little mathematical demonstration (since he advocates the study of mathematics to win roulette, so it's easy for him). Thank you in advance for this historical demonstration. To meditate on your answer "Remember, when posting, you affect the opinions of those who will read it ... protect them from both, your mistakes and casino malice." (Quote from MrPerfect in the same topic).

Mr. MickyP, please also name me by my pseudonym, and stop abusing the Scepticus nickname in a rough way. I grant you that aggression is one of the signs of depression, know that people are reading you, think of your "congregation". According to you I can lose a "congregation" but not you with your excesses? In reality, you lose access to the depth of things, access to the phenomena of life and nature (and roulette). For your information, I have never played on a virtual roulette, I do not use the electronic roulette (not trust, and then it leaves an imprint).

But tell me, you presented the loss as a fatality to, one day, find a hypothetical winning method. Is it because one of your mentors said on this forum to have lost a lot in its early days? You say again recently that the player loses his funds several times before finding his winning method ! According to you, a danger is predictable but beginners must accept it (psychologically it's sado-masochism)! I rather advise players to invest in a cheaper way, by buying books from mathematicians, engineers, good scientists (even self-taught), who worked on roulette. Players will save time and money because they will learn that it is useless to go to a table to lose bankrolls, believing that this is called gaining experience. This is not my opinion, because I practiced several very different methods without losing. The most I lost was 10% of an initial bankroll (so not enough). I admit that players have difficulties to find good books, we must look, a bit like looking for a winning method.

Mr. MickyP, try to build an answer that can grow you and others. Don't neglect either that we can all learn a lot, even from our opponents or "enemies". It is ultimately a path of recognition and respect. Any deterrence or incivility process does not demonstrate that you understand and control what you say. Thank you !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Trilobite on March 09, 2019, 10:41:56 PM
Sorry Third, for slow response. Yes, my base bet was $5 chips, or at least $5 table minimum, but sometimes I would jump on a $10 table minimum. I was playing 3 numbers with 2 progressions, soft & hard. But its ancient history and I don’t play that system any more.
That particular system bucked the trend of playing for win goals, or stop losses, or time outs, or targets. It was set up more like a tennis match, with a game-set-match formula. Come what may I had to see the match out. It’s a challenging format for sure. There was nothing stopping me calling it quits early though if the need arose.
For the record, I don’t agree at all with mickyP that Scepticus is the forum village idiot. In fact I’d put myself and a few others well ahead of him for that accolade.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 09, 2019, 11:21:53 PM
@Strategy. ...reply for post above. 
   Sometimes l simply can not be bothered to answer qwestions that do not deserve the answer.
    Progress or flat bet... it's all same. Difference starts for what you use it.
 If you use progressive betting to rase bankroll,  then it's fine.... but no progression will make players day if his bet selection is negative.
   I firmly believe  ( based on experience ) that player has to find advantage first and think how to explore it ( how to bet) later.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 10, 2019, 12:25:45 AM
Stratege (PMS), your condescending attitude will not reign me in to respect you or Septic who has the same attitude.
I asked you not to address me as Mr MickyP but as MickyP (my forum pseudonym) but you simply ignored my request. Live with the new name.

I mentioned once that I don't use the Martingale progression at all but do use variations of the D' Alembert progression in some of my methods and Septic misunderstood as usual and thinks I use it with everything I do. Speak to the village idiot and sort it out between the two of you.

I never said you contradict me but I did say you contradict yourself. Big difference PMS.

Why is it that aiming to win 45% of a daily bankroll over an average of 8 sessions is unattainable in your books? It about 11/12 units per session or about 6% per session. Unless you are playing the 9 blocks this is easily attainable.

The reason why mathematicians are still working to find a solution to CONSTANTLY winning at roulette is because they are looking for a mathematical solution only and can not work out how to deal with variance to give them the results they seek. They want the Holy Grail.

I have adopted a policy of not sharing but will still start or join conversations like this thread I started and will encourage players to develop their own game and work at improving it on an ongoing basis.

PMS, save your sermons for someone else; I'm not buying crazy today.

Trilobite, your opinion of Scepticus is noted. My opinion of him came about from his own stupidity.

I hope I have answered or addressed all the points directed at me.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 11, 2019, 07:29:23 PM

MrPerfect, your speech is well founded. The real concern of the player is to find (or buy?) A selection that gets a positive expectation. Without this benefit all progressions eat a bankroll. I will not talk here about the type of progression that can win even more with a winning method, because that's the demonstration I'm asking MickyP. But if he cannot answer, I will answer this very simple technical question.

MickyP, you say that you do not use Alembert's progression but only variations for some of your methods. My question therefore remains relevant. How do you justify using variations of the d'Alembert, since I mathematically demonstrated that it was losing money on a winning method ? I repeat, your demonstration will be historic. Thank you for making us understand this mystery.

We can still doubt your honesty when you say that the player must analyze his daily sessions and modify his game, this is called "tweaking" his method. In reality, any modification of a method played can be a "disaster" for the bankroll. A method that has been validated must be played without change. Research at home, for improvement, is not aimed at immediate practice but a new validation over time. To omit this fundamental detail in order to transform it into a "high-risk change" is still in this "sadomasochistic" register. Are you aware of the number of spins that need to be analyzed to change a method? It's so huge on the straight up, that rare are the players who test enough to validate a benefit. So, to start a study again, to improve or not its method is still a job that sometimes takes years.

In reality, you talk to the losers of roulette, they can change every day the way they play, they will always lose 2.7% or 5.4% on the straight up. You project yourself into what you are, a forum is a reflective mirror, others discover sooner or later your reality hidden or real on the wheel.

I do not elevate my experience to standard, scientifically study roulette requires not having a passion for the game. I reason like a scientist because roulette requires it. The problem of saying that one must go through the loss of one's funds is still fraught with consequence. Maybe you are talking about your addiction? To make the habit of playing knowing that we will not win statistically is to leave the reason to be drifted to his impulses. It's a dangerous path. Few players return from this fatal adventure. They lose the taste of the effort; the game becomes a distraction. This path then does not allow patience and lucidity to make relevant tests for hundreds and thousands of hours.

But still, you say you have several methods that earn 6% on average. It's a huge performance. It is obvious that you know very few roulette techniques, so you are talking about a direct% earned on roulette. We will usually find 1 or 2 or 3% with heat. So, some chips gained a day. A bankroll on straight up then makes 1500 units here. The profit is very small. It is therefore necessary to use techniques to increase the profit and decrease the units to the bankroll. But you do not know these techniques. Your speech is regularly at your true level: analyze each day his spins, perfect forever. I'm talking about techniques and peripheral strategies to multiply a small advantage caught in a Hazard fault. We must stop talking about a breathtaking advantage, not to mention the techniques that amplify a small advantage. I'm not saying that we cannot get 15 or 20% on the straight up. I know it's possible, but impossible without a technical level.

I repeat my question : can you justify the usefulness of a variation of the d'Alembert ? This would prove that you have "tweaked" your methods! Thank you for your historical demonstration. It is in the discomfort that we progress the most! As you say that the player must constantly search and question, you have luck, Stratege is tonight on this forum for you !

MickyP, I used "Mr." to talk to the man behind your nickname. This man who transforms pseudonyms wants to put himself above some. Also, I was trying to engage the man behind your nickname to make more convincing demonstrations. The problem with you is that you are constantly running away from talking about things that are not directly related to the subject: roulette. The reason is that you want to prevent people from realizing that you only have a lot of imagination but no consistent argument about roulette (except phrases that we find on all forums and that can apply to any game of casino). Thank you for respecting people and refocusing your speech on roulette and its techniques (if you really are the specialist you claim to be).
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 11, 2019, 10:50:37 PM
Are you aware of the number of spins that need to be analyzed to change a method? It's so huge on the straight up, that rare are the players who test enough to validate a benefit. So, to start a study again, to improve or not its method is still a job that sometimes takes years.

Years of winning?  I'll take that! :D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Rinad on March 12, 2019, 02:32:15 AM


   Drama queens some of you are.  can this forum ever speak sens about roulette ever ????

           a big Jar of humility needs to be poured on some heads.

  hope you grow up fast, God help us!!!

  Rinad

     
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 12, 2019, 02:47:23 AM
IMO it would be nowhere near 1%.
I think you missed the smiley face , Trilo  ;D   
and your IMO is wrong too !   It is certain that it is nowhere  near 1%  though you were right to question it !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 12, 2019, 09:27:51 PM
Stratege, yet another long winded sermon. I did mention that I am not buying crazy, not today or any time soon.
Sorry I stood you up on the date you arranged for us. I think to appease other forum members we should move our lovers quarrels to private messaging.  :-*  You remain as condescending as ever!

BUT... in this post I will address the D'Alembert concern you raised, but only to a point.

Your question reads as follows: How do you justify using variations of the d'Alembert, since I mathematically demonstrated that it was losing money on a winning method ?
[/color]
Firstly, direct me to your mathematical demonstration and confirm the use of a "winning method" that it is in fact a winning method without the need for a progression, D'Alembert variant specially.

I presume you are aware that the D'Alembert progression has variants like the reverse D'Alembert progression. I also presume that you are aware that write ups on the D'Alembert progression are presented with EC bets for simply explanatory purposes. I do not play EC bets at all nor do I play straight mechanical systems where the shortcoming of this and any other type of progression will end in failure in the long run. I have modified the D'Alembert progression to suit some of my methods and when I do use progressions they are strictly applied and controlled. To go into further detail I would have to reveal at least one of my methods to illustrate the strength of a modified D'Alembert progression that I use and I am not on the sharing wagon as you well know.

I play from the wheel and not the betting felt. I play strategies and methods as opposed to systems. I evaluate the play from each day spent at the casino and I do not consider myself a gambler. I go to a casino and as soon as I reach my target gain or loss, I leave. There have been days that I have gone to the casino and spent 8-10 hours at the roulette tables playing only on paper as I test a new method (this is after I have tested it extensively using spin history from the net). The last phase of my testing is at least one full day at a B/M table without any cash bets placed. If I was a gambler I would not be able to resist the temptation of placing cash bets.

The percentages I talk about are related to target goals I set myself and is an approximation on what I require from each session played. Winning the exact number of chips required per session rarely happens. More often than not there is an excess "win" and these excess wins are used to tame or nullify the occasional loss I experience.

I am not in possession of a Holy Grail System that wins every single bout. If I made such a claim then Scepticus would be right in calling me a liar. I do LOSE like every other player but my methods cater for such eventualities.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 13, 2019, 07:29:13 PM
RINAD wants a comparison between progression and flat betting, the rise of Alembert is the simplest to make calculations because we know that this progression wins 1/2 unit per spin played.Imagine a method that earns 1% with the flat bet. Let's say it takes 100 units of capital to hold. After 100 x 100 spins (or 10 000 spins) there are 100 units won that allow you to double your capital. With the rising of Alembert will also have to take 100 terms (1 + 2 + 3 ... + 99 + 100) is in total 5050 units [(1 + 100) x 50]. The D'Alembert will win in 9,900 spins (10,000 - 100), 1/2 piece per spins played, or 4950 units + 100 units won thanks to this 1% advantage. That is a gain of 5,050 units. There is equality of benefits between the d'Alembert and flat betting ! [font=]Now imagine a method that wins 2% with the flat bet. Let's say it takes 100 units of capital to hold. After 100 x 100 spins there are 200 units gained which allow to triple its capital. With the rising of Alembert will also have to take 100 terms (1 + 2 + 3 ... + 99 + 100) is in total 5050 units [(1 + 100) x 50]. The D'Alembert will win in 9,800, 1/2 piece by spins played, 4,900 + 200 units won thanks to this 2% advantage. The intuitions on the progressions are here not so good because the d'Alembert is very far from having tripled its capital !!! [/font][font=]The conclusion (with these figures) also suggests that a progression can beat the flat bet with a 0% method but it is hypothetical in practice because of the variance that requires a huge capital. But in theory, where the flat bet pays nothing, the d'Alembert or another progression can do better. [/font][font=]A progression does not show in the examples that its main quality is to make more profit. At best, it allows you to withdraw earnings more often from your method. It should be added that a method with a positive expectation[/font][font=]has two qualities: to fight against variance with the least possible number of units and to make profit in flat bet. Add to that a complex progression is often complicated. But that does not prevent him from doing his theoretical research [/font]
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 13, 2019, 07:34:29 PM

MickyP, thanks for your answer. Alas, readers will remain hungry. No private message, all the interest of this discussion is to present it to the members, the readers, without hiding anything! Do you want me to confirm a winning method without the use of a progression? I'm not sure I understood you.

The most important is your argument that to demonstrate your variant of Alembert you must take one of your methods, and that this is indiscreet. Many times, on the forums I heard this kind of answer! In fact, all you have to do is pick numbers from your past or invent them. This does not reveal a method. A succinct demonstration is not a revelation in detail.

I am very familiar with progressions. While they are usually featured on EC, we all know that this applies to all types of bets. I spent years studying progressions, and using one variant or another, eventually you pay the tax in proportion to the sum of chips played. With a winning method, a more advantageous solution isn’t in a variant ... I do not say more, because your speech is very imprecise, without clear meaning. You keep the Opportunity to completely change your message if I explain certain things.

The members on roulette forums spend their time inventing variations on the main progressions. There is no secret to keep on such a subject, because the end result is known in advance! If a variant of the d'Alembert brought an advantage, long ago that in my simulations I would have found this phenomenon that would exist in a variant but not in the classic progression. Admit that the opposite case would be strange. Simply changing differently would cause another result ?

I give you a simplified example of EC. Selection at 10% profit, bankroll 30 units. After 100 spins played +10, 33% of the bankroll. Strict application of the Alembert for this selection: 465 units (1 + 2 + 3 ...+ 29 + 30), after 100 spins played +55 (1/2 chip per spin), or 11, 8% of the bankroll. The difference between the two types of play is 21 points (33 - 11,8). The d'Alembert is naturally a disaster on a winning selection (here at 10%), so your variant remains in the structure of this progression. Otherwise your variant would be exceptional, because it would cancel the "negative" effect of the progression of Alembert and then bring a greater advantage than the flat bet! MickyP, you are as usual exceptional, your speech belongs to another world! But don’t say that your variation is only a few spins, or chips, out of 100 played. Then add the sum of the spins played with your variant to have the equivalent of the classic d'Alembert. You will find the same disaster.

As you read, I understand more and more that you don't have a long experience of roulette, you say things that arn’t based on experience, techniques or experience of winning. That cannot be imagined. The way you speak shows me that you don’t know, your speech did not move anything forward. You may never know, so it's best that I absolve you from any demonstration.

Members will find that "your methods" were "fabricated" with the characteristics cited by your two favorite mentors: 1) you have several methods, 2) you with a winning goal, 3) you use a progression in some cases, 4) your daily bankroll is 200 units (exactly MrPerfect's advice), 5) you play exclusively on the straight up.

Understand, MickyP, you have several methods, you talk about a 6% advantage (this is unclear). But, to underline a detail, to get 6% on Hazard with straight up is to have found methods that earn on average 6% + 5.4% = 11.5%. Find several very unique methods and having so little to say at the technical level is very amazing!

Without learning theories and techniques, many players will have a gaming experience but never a real roulette experience. A forum is also a place where different bell sounds resonate. The inexperienced members and readers are often lost, and a few years later, they still do not know what to think. It's the same with the bad authors on roulette.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 13, 2019, 08:52:01 PM
Progressions do not cause failures.  Improper bet sizing causes failure.  A flexible progression allows for a player to lose less and win more which is the formula for a winning method:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRCtBRsLPmk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHhtVfeoCdQ
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: mr j on March 13, 2019, 10:15:11 PM
If you cant win flat betting, you won't win with your silly negative progression. Real players know this.

Ken
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 14, 2019, 03:24:42 AM
(https://pics.esmemes.com/tell-me-again-how-your-opinion-matters-com-17746935.png)

Don't get me wrong, flat betting has its usefulness; it is excellent for soaking up negative variance.

Its basic economics:

Quote
Buy low, sell high

Its also common sense but hey if you like singing other people's mantras, then have at it but you should know that you are simply a tool.

(https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2714.0;attach=5966)

Every number goes through the same cycle as depicted above.  We raise in the green and flat bet the red. 

Certain numbers are better than others even though you don't watch for it.  Your method only looks at numbers in the very short term.  The people whose mantra you are singing don't play that way, so I don't see how singing their mantra makes you feel more secure since you don't follow their method.

You aren't the only person in the world with a successful method.  I think you seriously need to step back and actually realize that.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 14, 2019, 10:13:40 AM
Stratege (PMS), I see you are still trying to reign me in with yet another dribble infested sermon. You almost guarantee yourself an afterlife in the "halls of the Holy Grail house of Roulette". Beware, it is chip infested.
Refer back to your question in blue text and explain your choice of words regarding a winning system. (......losing money on a winning system.)

You are right, I don't have a long history of the game compared to the history of the game itself.
You see, I am a free standing thinker. I rely on logic and rational thought to identify and and solve problems. Logic and the ability to be rational is not innate in people. It has much to do with IQ. The higher ones IQ the more natural logic and rational thinking appears to be. There is not enough time in an average human life to learn logic and rational thought. You either have it or you don't.
My stumbling across what you call "gap reducer" in the Dozen Drive was not an accident at all in spite of the fact that I did not study the works of a dead mathematician. It came about as a logical remedy to a problem. Rational thought was applied to place all the pieces together.
I don't build scientific models and create scenarios that do not reflect a B/M playable approach. I sketch a scenario for myself, something like: I have 100 units in hand and I want to increase it by 10 units within 15 spins of the wheel.This reflects B/M reality! I will address the inevitable losses that come with the game by looking at as many aspects of a method that will possible lead to a loss. How do I recognize weaknesses and counter them within the method?
Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea.
Your explanation on progression tests do not follow a logical approach, scientific maybe but logical, No.
Think logically about what you want from the game. Chasing the "Holy Grail" is a job for hobby academics who lack functional intelligence. Learning the works of someone else simply qualifies you as a smart parrot. Being able to used acquired knowledge to challenge what is perceived as flawed logic or irrational thought puts you on the road to evolving from your current parrot status to understanding how to use the ability to rationalize your thoughts; on condition that your IQ allows it.
 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 14, 2019, 02:25:41 PM
https://youtu.be/AZei95EsejU

I like the rules.


Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 14, 2019, 07:26:21 PM

MickyP, I'm not trying to control you because I'm "absolving you" (I said recently) of your demonstration. The reason is that you can not do this demonstration, so I do not insist. By the way your last message speaks very little about roulette, but it expresses your need for a revaluation of yourself. Be careful, the absence of a technical discussion will end up discouraging your readers.  >:( 

Here is another lack of rationality with your methods. You talked about your "daily gain goal". This scenario is really a bad plan! Your game session is, for example, 4 hours daily. If you win quickly you go home after 1 or 2 hours. But if you do not reach your goal you continue the game and it's 8 hours. Your gambling life does not allow you to plan a dinner with which you want, because you do not control the time factor. Your winning goal is therefore a galley in practice, you can not predict anything. This goal gain is useless (except with a losing method to slow bankruptcy). If you did not understand this evidence, it's because you have never tested "your" methods.

Between your Alembert variant costing you money, and your winning goal that keeps you normally manage your time, you have still the audacity to tell us about your logic and rationality, which are inborn you !

Regarding your question, yes, some players actually lose despite having a winning method or losing financial potential because they are bad technicians! In the heyday of counting blackjack cards, I saw this at the gaming tables and an American author (Canfield) also spoke about this in his book. At roulette the winners are very rare. Some players lose money (financial potential) because they do not have the techniques to amplify a small advantage. And if they want to use a progression, they do not really know how to do it (everyone is not called Third), nor manage stress.

You imagine things about me. I'm not interested in the "Holy Grail" (I used that word once in a topic that talked about the grail, that's it. Understand that studying the theories of others then used to invent with more rigor scientist (without searching for years what has already been discovered) I am the only one on this forum that talks about my personal research (I presented several phenomena and other elements that are not discussed in the books).

I talked about your winning goal but it's like your variant of Alembert, you will not have a logical explanation to give me. I said that "your" methods were calibrated on 5 things said by your mentors. Who is a parrot? the scientist or you? It is useless for me to continue this discussion, you just have imagination, any demonstration is inaccessible for you. Readers understood.  :-\ 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: palestis on March 14, 2019, 07:55:58 PM
                             Throughout the years of playing here are my conclusions on how to evolve and be profitable in roulette playing.
1.   Construct the system ( either thru hypothetical scenarios that seem to have good hit rate, or systems published here).
2.  Test the system for as long as it takes to master its behavior.
     It's not how many millions of numbers you test that it's important, it is how many situations you test (call them triggers), that prompt the commencing the bets. ( that can be thousands of situations).
If you test long enough you will have a pretty good idea of the range of bets required to get a hit after a trigger.
3.   (Very important). Test long enough to find out what the worst possible scenario can be as well as how often it can happen. (black swans).
4. Make system changes to fit the test results rather than sticking to the initial hypothesis.
5.  Develop your strategy:
     That is progression if needed, virtual bets if you don't want to take the risk of betting the entire range of bets, and money management. (available B/R VS. minimum chip value etc.
6.  Risk control.
     Learn to identify dangers that lead to the black swan and pull out on time. (stick only with the range of bets that tests have proven to produce a hit.  ( Not less  not more).
                     
   Some members might come up with negative comments and all types of objections, but I don't care.
    What I just described works for me just fine and I wouldn't change it for nothing.
( Thanks for your constructive objections, but no thanks).
I am not here to prove superiority of intelligence, I post what works perfectly for me.
Anyone with an average intelligence can win if they follow these steps.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 14, 2019, 08:52:00 PM
PMS, you are losing your condescending stance but it still hangs in the air like a heavy fart that envelopes the messenger, following him around the room. Well done Pastor, well done, I say.

The thread is about growing/evolving as a player so I'll stick to the topic as best I can. I will also reference your dribble where necessary.

You say I parrot my mentors in the five things you have identified as my sails on this roulette ship that I captain. They did assist in upgrading my ship. You state as follows:

"Members will find that "your methods" were "fabricated" with the characteristics cited by your two favorite mentors: 1) you have several methods, 2) you with a winning goal, 3) you use a progression in some cases, 4) your daily bankroll is 200 units (exactly MrPerfect's advice), 5) you play exclusively on the straight up."

1. Correct, I use several methods on a day visit to the casino.
2. Here I take it you say I have a win goal, if so then correct.
3 Correct, I do use progressions where and when necessary.
4. My daily bankroll is 200 units (the value of the units differs through time) This I believe I stated in my first thread on the forum.
5. I only play inside numbers; straight up numbers and splits or a combination of both.

I am not ashamed to say that I have learnt from some members on the forum. The members in question are all seasoned players with real B/M table experience that is more meaningful to me than scientifically researching the game without setting parameters.

Mr J (Ken) has not given me a free ride to unwrapping his understanding and experience of the game; however, I studied his progress on the forum and gathered his "nasty one liners" for a closer look. I then included my findings as parameters in testing old methods as well as new ones. In this way I can say Ken helped me guide my finger out of my butt. I have studied the posts of my other mentors in the same way. Do I mimic any one of them in particular? No, I play my own style and Yes, I do evaluate my play at the end of a day. On an annual basis I am exposed to an estimate of less than 50 000 spins at a B/M table. I have not worked out the played spins but I would imagine it to be about half (25 000). Funny thing about roulette is that through all the different moments it is a fairly constant game and you can almost read the mood at any given time.

My time is my own and if I make an appointment with anyone I always keep it. I am never late because I always give myself time to deal with the unforeseen like our daily protest actions...lol. Roulette is not my life, it is simply a source of income for me and I work at my own pace. My monthly goal is attainable in less than half the time I have allocated to the task.

Third plays online roulette but he has an understanding of the use of progressions. I just think his transition to B/M table play will prove more difficult than he may believe.
Most players will include a progression as a standard feature in a method that is only reset on a new bankroll high and this can be dangerous unless you have a large bankroll and high table limits. It is not always doom and gloom but simply repeating the steps of a progression as a game rule is in many cases like playing on the side of the house. With much practice the ability to read table trends becomes easier and with this "skill" selectively using a progression becomes a practical and rewarding "attack" in a game.

See you around Pastor.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 14, 2019, 09:01:22 PM
As I was writing my post above one of my mentors (Palestis) posted his views on evolving as a player and his advice is sound, it's solid but it's not a handout as hard work is required. It's a map with directions to a hidden treasure that many will be able to benefit from.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: palestis on March 14, 2019, 11:05:52 PM
Hard work is required indeed.
Most of it for testing of thousands of situations (triggers), to get an average percentage of successful hits, within a range of bets than you financially can afford to wager. Most likely with increasing progression.
If that range is too wide for the number of numbers you bet, then the system is unstable and should be rejected. It cannot be trusted.
What you want is a narrow range of bets that succeeds to get a hit, and it has to happen by an overwhelming percentage.
When it doesn't happen,  you have to have an idea how far the number of bets can go before they reach the black swan.
And you have to make sure that this only happens very rarely.
All that translates to hard work testing and drawing conclusions.
By doing your homework, you may find that beating roulette is easy after all.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 15, 2019, 11:55:37 AM
https://youtu.be/rPv3CD8RZ0Q

Here is a video that can be used to slot yourself into the roulette marketplace.
PMS tells me I should be concerned about what others may think of me through the content of my posts. Whatever side of the scale those opinions fall on does not affect my time at a roulette table so I am not concerned by worldly opinions.

I do not look for ways to change the House Edge because it can not be changed but that does not mean you can not profit from roulette. It just requires a focused approach to show above average gains from a game with a constant advantage over the player.

The video links I post are there to challenge you the player to weigh and measure your mindset so you give yourself room to think freely about your own shortcomings and it also allows you to affirm your own strengths as well. A solid approach to roulette separates the men from the boys

I know I am helping some players even if it is in ways that does not include spoon feeding systems to the gullible. I know as a liberal despising, Trump loving person I have placed myself in front of the firing squad. I can handle a degree of dribble and being peppered with jelly tots and the like from snowflakes. Shake off the emotions and step into reality, the real game awaits you there.

The best thing any newbie can do is to identify a few seasoned players on the forum and learn from their contributions. Engage in discussions with them and use the knowledge and advise you receive to create your own approach to the game.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 15, 2019, 05:18:20 PM
Third plays online roulette but he has an understanding of the use of progressions. I just think his transition to B/M table play will prove more difficult than he may believe.

This wisdom rings in my head as true long after it has been posted and even beyond a full night's sleep.  Everyone should understand this about all my posts.

I am going to call myself a "RNG specialist". :D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 15, 2019, 07:56:17 PM

MickyP, I announced yesterday that I will leave your discussion. You do not want to discuss this theme of your "Alembert variant". No pronounced sentence, nothing to suggest that there is a reality behind your claim on this advantageous variant, really nothing! If I ask you also "how can you justify your choice of a goal gain of 90 units? I still know that you have not done any tests on this subject. At this stage of the discussion, you only have a vulgar register to express yourself.

You speak of a goal of victory ? A player tries to reach his average gain as quickly as possible (to make his time profitable and move away from the negative variance - or "black swan" not on his selection but on his accounting). To get there, the more the player will play, the more he will meet that average. It is therefore not when returning home, some gains in pocket, that a player will "make his average". It does the opposite, it pushes back in time "its average goal"!

Review of MickyP's claims : you preach the fatality of the loss of its funds. You turn it into a healthy experience to find a winning game. Then, you say that a progression derived from d'Alembert improves "your" winning methods, I demonstrated that it was impossible, but no response from you! Finally, you have a "goal gain" that does not correspond to a logical and rational practice with winning method ! No answer, either, about it. You say things but we cannot discuss them.

You want to animate a topic for the players to grow and evolve, but they will have to believe MickyP without arguing. It is unfortunate that a member of this forum presents himself as an accomplished winning player, but his messages tell indisputable things (as in any sectarian chapel). I prefer the message of Palestis with its 6 steps. He gets wet a little more. I will answer on this subject that stage 1 is too often insurmountable for the players. But to take this step is like accessing another world.  ::)
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 15, 2019, 10:49:31 PM
Stratege, at least you have slacked up a bit on your dribble infested sermons we have become so accustomed to. And I see your congregation of one supports you like a loyal wife; what a snowflake. I have also taken note of the fact that you have made a point of studying my threads and posts across the forum. What surprises me is that you present yourself as an intelligent person and you emphasize this point in your posts but yet you harp on the dumbest things that should be so easy to understand like goal setting as a guide to better game management.

I know you are not interested in me actually answering your questions because the answers are already posted and explained on this forum but I am going to presume you are somewhat of a slow learner and explain some things again.

I am a goal driven Roulette player. Everything I do revolves around the attainment of my set goals. Although time is an important commodity, I have learnt through experience that I can not rush the game of roulette. I set aside enough time in a day to reach my 45% of bankroll gain goal (90 units). This grand total I will divide into 8 sessions with a session gain goal of 12 units (rounded off to higher number). That gives me one hour per session to make 12 units. I have the advantage of time to observe a table long enough to decide which one of my methods I will use for that session. Because I play 35-1 and 17-1 odds covering 8 or less numbers, I mostly end a session in less than 10 spins with an excess win that is banked separately. Why do I do this? To better manage inevitable losses. I may play only 5 sessions and the target wins (60 units) plus the excess wins (30+) will give me my daily goal. BUT… I don’t normally do this, I press on to complete 8 sessions giving me 90 units and the excess wins are all banked separately and carried over to the next day. An accumulation of excess wins is a great morale booster as it confirms the method is working as it should.
An example of using a progression: If I encounter a loss over 15 spins of staggered play using a progression (variants I use flatten the progressions and only playing a few numbers helps to minimize chip outlay) I will chalk it up as a lost session and begin a new session in the same manner I begin the first session. I have enough time during allocated play time to see exactly where I stand and what I need to do to reach my goal. I usually have enough excess wins to nullify the loss with chips to spare.
It’s just a very basic, logical and rationally thought out money management approach that helps me greatly in maintaining my success.

You did not demonstrate that it is impossible to be successful with the variants (there are more than one that I use) of the D’ Alembert progression that I use. How could you if you don’t even know how to apply them?

The “fatality of loss” as you call it occurs in the game because of “unstable” prediction methods. Unlike AP prediction methods, system/strategy prediction methods lag in accuracy and need to be compensated for in the method used. I am sure you must be aware of this fact.

PMS, you will not wear me down. I see guys like you at the tables on a regular basis and smile when I hear them squealing about rigged wheels, blaming the casino for their own stupidity.

Well, I have given you a fair amount of homework to do so get to it.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 16, 2019, 12:09:00 AM
Stratege
You are on a loser argung with Mickyboy ;;er...Micky P.  Many, including myself , have found that he changes  his story when criticised .

An example .He first says that he uses the D'Alembert strategy and, when challenged  , changes it to a " version of D;Alembert " . No experienced player would make  so many errors as he does .
p.s.
He doesn't like it when you DON'T  answer him  He likes an argument and gets irritated when he has no one to argue with ! ;D   

pps
Yes ! I saw you wifie !  >:(
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 16, 2019, 04:01:45 AM
It is therefore not when returning home, some gains in pocket, that a player will "make his average". It does the opposite, it pushes back in time "its average goal"!

I happily trade a uncertain future for an certain present and I do it every day that I play! :D

Regardless of macro statistics that apply to our long-term balance sheet, the cumulative probability in our micro sessions is still tied specifically to each individual session through the features of the statistical output and when we start up another session, the statistical output in that session WILL be different; the only exception being if we were to return to the same physical wheel. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 16, 2019, 04:52:26 AM
Stratege
You are on a loser argung with Mickyboy ;;er...Micky P.  Many, including myself , have found that he changes  his story when criticised .

An example .He first says that he uses the D'Alembert strategy and, when challenged  , changes it to a " version of D;Alembert " . No experienced player would make  so many errors as he does .
p.s.
He doesn't like it when you DON'T  answer him  He likes an argument and gets irritated when he has no one to argue with ! ;D   

pps
Yes ! I saw you wifie !  >:(

Septic, this is exactly what liberal snowflakes do; accuse the aggressor (anyone who disagrees with them) of the wrongs they commit; dishonesty being a common trait among their many flaws. You are a liar. I have called you out many times for changing your words that changed the meaning of what you have originally stated. You fail to explain yourself and ignore the situation hoping it will go away; that's why I call you a snowflake because you buckle under pressure. This is a weakness of character and you wear that badge so proudly.

I stick to and agree with my stated words that I use the D' Alembert progression (not strategy) and even if I use a variant (D'Alembert changed slightly or watered down using a matrix to suit my method or the reverse meaning the positive variant) it remains a D'Alembert progression.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 16, 2019, 09:54:13 AM

Scepticus, I read in your topic your message about a member who said come on this forum to learn and then, as if by magic, he had winning methods. Yes, I have seen these word changes to stay in the elusive. But some numbers often have phenomenal power in front of claims that are not logical. I agree, what characterizes an experienced player is his precision when he speaks. And the type of error committed in a message informs a lot about the level of the player who expresses himself.  :o

Third, this uncertainty that you mention is perhaps a stage, then there would be certainties ? It's part of our evolution (it's anthropological). We move from certainty to doubt, before re-cycling. Christ (the son of God) had faith, and the last word of Jesus (man) was "My God why did you abandon me ? ". Doubt carries the questioning process. If we never doubt, we are God, Perfection. Hazard is not perfect, because perfection can not evolve anymore. Hazard always produces novelty, so it remains imperfect, so flaws exist. What the saying in the second part of your message would require a longer explanation. What is important is the psychological comfort. If a player thinks it's better to change tables after winning a session, it's better that he changes. Of course, if we had a very positive wave on a table, then it is better to run away from this table so as not to make our abnormal gains to the probabilities. It is precisely according to these abnormal phases that we can vary "a little" our bets, to win finally in two different ways: with the positive expectation of our method, and with the movements of the game.

Growing up and evolving goes through this process "certainty-doubt" so I look forward to continuing the discussion on this topic, because I still have some doubts …  :-\
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 16, 2019, 11:09:05 AM

MickyP (https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?action=profile;u=3313)Hero Member
Re: Small wins per session (https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,1906.msg27212.html#msg27212)
« Reply #14 on: November 09, 2017, 07:11:05 PM »

Quote from: Reyth on November 09, 2017, 01:06:24 PM (https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,1906.msg27208.html#msg27208)https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?topic=919.msg13459#msg13459 (https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php/topic,919.msg13459.html#msg13459)

Small consistent gains become very large over multiple sessions with minimized risk overall because its a parlay MM.

I actually was successful using this one time but my method wasn't consistent enough.



"Thanks for the guidance Reyth. A very good thread as it runs parallel to the self funding concept of the bankroll management in my post.

I did not go into much detail in my post as spoon feeding leads to laziness. With my concept bankroll is doubled during the third day.

Betting on even chance in South Africa can be expensive. The lowest unit value is R10.00 and outside bets are R100.00 minimum with a table max of R2000.00. Betting High/Low on the double streets helps to reduce the bet outlay. Martingale is a steep progression at any time. I use D'Alembert and variations of it, at times with a matrix. I know it slows the progress of the game but at least I play with a steady pulse."


The post quoted above is taken from my first thread on this forum. Take note of the text I have highlighted in red text.
In this same thread I state that I have been earning a living from roulette for the past two years (from that time).
I present true facts posted on this forum. Take note of the consistency of my word. The framework for my roulette business remains the same because it has and continues to work for me,
Seems PMS and Septic are on a Witch Hunt for something/anything to discredit me with. Typical snowflake behavior...lol
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 16, 2019, 11:33:36 AM
Thanks Stratege

It is worth noting that 100 Rands is worth about 5 . 5 UK  £. and Micky cannot afford that . He bets 10Rwhich is about er..er.. OH ! Where is my calculator !

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 16, 2019, 11:58:45 AM
Septic, how does my truth measure up to your lie?
Did I change from D' Alembert "strategy" to variations of D' Alembert "progression" as you so confidently stated? (LIE) You are caught out and so you shift the focus. Pretty Fu*ken Pathetic!

Cost of living differs from country to country. My daily bankroll is just a little less than current minimum wage in this country.

Shows how narrow minded you are. It also shows how desperate you are to find something/anything to bring me down with. Hahaha.....Carry on Snowflake.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 16, 2019, 01:01:31 PM
 I use D'Alembert and variations of it, at times with a matrix. I know it slows the progress of the game but at least I play with a steady pulse
.Micky P

Usual lack of consistency, but , hey , I lie ! >:(
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 16, 2019, 02:01:43 PM
YES you LIED, you fabricated an UNTRUTH to try and discredit me. The D'Alembert remains the foundation of that specific progression I used and continue to use.
If I chopped and changed my tune you may have had grounds for an argument but sadly your pants are still around your ankles.

I have improved and added new methods to my play but I will not change a working successful approach in its entirety. As long as I am able to reach my goals with what I do then I am happy. However, I learn and continue to learn from others and from from my own efforts.
I stated in the same post I referenced above: "I did not go into much detail in my post as spoon feeding leads to laziness." And you bitch because I don't give enough. Work it out for yourself, Do the work!

Septic you are a loser in my eyes, a snowflake.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 16, 2019, 02:12:11 PM
The D'Alembert remains the foundation of that specific progression I used and continue to use.Micky P ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 16, 2019, 10:36:24 PM
Christ (the son of God) had faith, and the last word of Jesus (man) was "My God why did you abandon me ? ".

This is Our Lord expressing his greatest sorrow that all men are unable to be saved, despite His omnipotence, because not all men are willing to be saved.

Also, this was not His last Word, which was: "It is finished".  This was the accomplishment of the salvation of all men that were willing and the damnation of the rest.

Quote
Of course, if we had a very positive wave on a table, then it is better to run away from this table so as not to make our abnormal gains to the probabilities. It is precisely according to these abnormal phases that we can vary "a little" our bets, to win finally in two different ways: with the positive expectation of our method, and with the movements of the game.

Very interesting.  This is our human attempt to improve our results, much in the same way we apply a bet selection.

Quote
Growing up and evolving goes through this process "certainty-doubt" so I look forward to continuing the discussion on this topic, because I still have some doubts …  :-\

How can we not doubt when we clearly see that all of our efforts appear to have no effect upon the long-term outcome!?  I think the key is to continue to postpone that long-term outcome as long as we can, in as many ways as we can, such as:

1) Long-term bankroll management
2) Bet selection
3) Stop loss
4) Stop win
5) Session debt management (divisor, banking etc.)

I wish I could believe completely what Dobble says:

Quote
Long-term sessions do not have the same statistical features as short-term sessions and therefore by playing a strategy which utilizes short-term sessions, we will not have the same long-term statistical features of long-term sessions.

I wonder how he proved this theorem?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 17, 2019, 12:07:51 AM
Third
I think that what Dobbel means is that  since no one knows how long the Long Term is then no one can compute  it .  Seems logical to me .
Those of us who have been betting for some time know that " The Run from Hell " can come all too SOON rather than  " EVENTUALLY  "  and  know there is no " Certainty " in any  form of gambling .
As for " Supreme Beings " it seems to me that they get the credit for all the good in the world and mankind gets  the blame for all the bad things in the world . Seems unfair to me .   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 17, 2019, 12:26:55 AM
Dobble defines the long-term for each bet selection.  He says that the long-term for a straight up bet is over a million spins!  :o
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 17, 2019, 12:43:38 AM
O.K.Third . I was wrong in  what I thought Dobbel meant.  Clearly, he is wrong  as is anyone who claims to know how long the long run is .  Obviously, if you attach a certain number to it then it can be computed . We have no Facts about  The Future . We can only guess  the result of  an uncertain future event . I wish members would face the reality that gambling  means taking the risk of losing hard - earned  money  . Where there is no risk there is no gambling and roulette is certainly a form of gambling ... er... entertainment   ;D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 17, 2019, 02:00:26 AM
He determined the long-run by running very many tests of each bet selection and eventually he discovered the maximum number of spins where a loss must take place.  This becomes a practical certainty (which is the best we can get in roulette) because no matter how many times we run a test, a loss will always occur within "x" spins.

I am not 100% certain this is how he determined the long-run (which he calls the DTOP) but it is at least something similar to this.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 17, 2019, 08:50:03 AM

I am trying to answer the messages of Scepticus & Third. Dobbelsteen's theorem, I can understand it according to what I said about "The law of small numbers and the law of great numbers" (February 23, 2019). But you must also consider your type of bet ! For EC, D and C ..., the "long term" (a few hundred spins) reveals imbalances that the law of equilibrium can better partially restore. But on the straight up, the "short term" promotes repetition (law of the third), and for the player a possibility to locate the heat. It is here the notion of imbalance that is approached. In the long term, the concept of heat disappears (the prediction becomes problematic).

MickyP, I will conclude this debate on "your" methods and "your" variants of Alembert. You say that I cannot show that your variants are ineffective because you have not presented them !

There is no need to show that your variants do not work. You use the progression structure of Alembert. All imaginable variants will remain in this disadvantageous structure. Your variants can never compensate for this disadvantage and then make a profit greater than the flat bet (already said). If you do not understand this mechanical and structural reality with the progressions in loss, it is because you are a great beginner.

A progression d'Alembert (or variante) on a winning method aims to withdraw more money from his sessions. But that diminishes the final profitability. You cannot say that your progress helps you to "maintain your success". No, because you say (telling slip - lapsus) that without your progressions your success would not be maintained. You present your progressions as an important key in your game (error of great beginner) !

Talking about several variations is also incomprehensible, depending on your discourse and your level of play. An experienced player could easily explain the usefulness of several progressions in a particular practice (that you do not know not) and who is not in the books it seems. If nobody comes to support your words, it's because it would be a bad deal. This story of progress has ruined your credibility !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 17, 2019, 09:51:44 AM
But on the straight up, the "short term" promotes repetition (law of the third), and for the player a possibility to locate the heat. It is here the notion of imbalance that is approached. In the long term, the concept of heat disappears (the prediction becomes problematic).

I have felt that at times but no matter the sequence length there will always be groups of numbers that will be known by their behavior:

1) Top 12 numbers (approximately)
2) Bottom 12 numbers (approximately)
3) Top 6 numbers (approximately)
4) Bottom 6 numbers (approximately)
5) Top 2 numbers (fluctuates from #3)

There are certain statistical features that are known such as:

a) A single number will hit within expectation within 13 attempts
b) Roulette will not produce more than 8 sequences of chop (hit within expectation followed by miss expectation) successively
c) There will always be a top performing number that will always have more hits within expectation than gaps and a significantly larger ratio of hits:gaps than other numbers

Statistical models are available for number behavior, to demonstrate how rare a particular behavior is and thus how likely it is that the behavior will immediately cease.

Many people make the mistake of looking at large samples and thinking that all the numbers have "achieved their statistical norm" and all appear equal but this is a fallacy due to the false impression that is created by the use of percentage.

Where prediction becomes "problematic" is when roulette continues to provide a different number from within the 6 top performers successively but I have found that eventually (the longer we play, the more likely it is) there will be 2 top numbers that will become consistently the best from all numbers and all that is necessary is to play the gap-hits pattern, minimizing loss and maximixing gain.  Unfortunately, this pattern is more likely to be seen after many hundreds of spins and so most people are unable to observe it; it is similar to deep sea diving, where things are seen there that are not visible at the surface.  I am certain that dedicated AP players have observed this.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 17, 2019, 11:35:56 AM
PMS, at least you used the word "great" when describing me. As a Trump supporter that is one of my favorite words; incredible, amazing how you soften me up with words I resonate with.

On a more serious note, aren't I very similar to a lab rat that keeps finding the cheese and you are the professor trying to understand why?
Roulette presents a maze of obstacles to any player wanting to profit from the game. To the lab rat the cheese is the profit.
I use whatever I can to reach the cheese in as few spins as possible and at times progressions work just fine for me seeing as I am not fully competent in AP prediction methods.
If you can not predict the next outcome with an extremely high level of accuracy then you have to embrace the reality of loss. That's a fact that you rather dismiss than  include in your research. Rambling on about theories and scientific studies gets you no closer to the constant wins you seem to be chasing. Professor, your introduction to the realities of B/M table roulette is best learnt from the lab rat ingenuity that keeps you in disbelief.
Go to a casino (the real lab) and become the rat that finds the cheese (profit) with minimal effort and in very few spins then you see that it is very possible.
 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 17, 2019, 12:11:50 PM

Yes Third, any observer for a long enough time finds differences between the numbers. On 5000 spins, some numbers in advance and late make a big difference. I talked about this with the 8 spins patterns (which represent the image of a roulette with 256 numbers! + zero!). I said that a pattern can get ahead with its rival pattern and at one point one of the two patterns is still ahead of everyone else. At this level (as with the numbers) I will speak of "movement of the game". And indeed, the notion of "trend" is more appropriate than that of "heat".

Indeed, players often think that there is a tie between the numbers that will inevitably come soon. "The drift of the statistical gap" can go on for a long time. On 1 million spins, an EC can have a "normal" difference of 1000 (or more), so if we only take a few numbers it can become huge. In fact, the human spontaneously interprets and simplifies things, but as soon as it goes beyond his direct perception, he makes many errors of judgment. We can wait all our life for equality between numbers, this equality may not come. Perhaps I should emphasize the nuances between "return to balance" and "return to balance". The first is a utopia (which also refers to the d'Alembert), the second is to capture a change of direction to win a bet (deviance-compensation) or more (trend). Marigny said that "the deviance is the rule, the balance is the exception". We cannot run after the exception, we would be short of breath! If you follow number trends, Third, it is true that groups are formed for a duration, then another group comes (I'll tell you later one of my observations). Studying this is exciting!
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 17, 2019, 12:56:49 PM
I agree!  I had no idea that Marigny thought that about balance.  One thing I like about number performance is that we can quickly and objectively tell when a number is not performing at expectation and immediately take correctiuve measures until it returns (or is replaced by a stronger performer). 

I think we can make many millions of spins but we will only see one dominant grouping of numbers for the entire sequence and furthermore we will find a dominated grouping of numbers that have never become dominant.  I think this is very significant.

I would like to learn how to study number performance better and in an organized way.  I have an unlimited supply of numbers but I simply lack the creative motivation to apply any kind of formal study.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 17, 2019, 01:44:32 PM
Third and Stratege
One cautionary note guys . Trying to ascertain a profitable method from many prior spins can give multiple  scenarios . Apart from the intellectual " Buzz " the PRACTICAL  question is " Can we devise a profitable method from your conclusinos.? "  I don't think you can. Are we to suppose that no Statistician or Mathematician has previusly tried this approach?

 The more stats we have the more likely that trends and chops will be observed . If we did 5000 trials each of one thousand spins we are likely to encounter one of those "thousands " contains one thousand Reds or Blacks ?
But Good Luck anyway  !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 17, 2019, 01:47:28 PM
Third ) A single number will hit within expectation within 13 attempts
Really ?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 17, 2019, 06:47:15 PM

Scepticus, the answer is yes. People who read my (technical) messages can discover for themselves this way of "deviance-compensation". The player may use other types of bets than the EC, if he prefers. But ECs may be simpler to practice.

Very good argument to say that if the researcher-roulette or the player found, why did the mathematician fail? In fact, we do not have the same goals. A mathematician who would find, cannot afford to induce crowds to play, as some might win but the majority would lose. This mathematician would be rejected by his scientific community. Imagine a Killian Mbappe math who can no longer play as a team (club)! It would be awful for him to play alone on a "mathematical football field".

Regarding my research, I lost a lot of time (years) to believe that it would be simpler and especially faster to test methods known but easy enough to practice. I was wrong for years. But it was a path of experience, before being psychologically ready to work on the difficult approach of Marigny. In reality, it was difficult to accept a certain rigor, but game principles easy to understand. I started 20 years ago to test the principles of Marigny that were published in magazines or derived methods (without the book Marigny). So, I tested personal variants quite far from the true principles of this author. But what is curious is that I have always observed a positive effect. This "deviance-compensation" principle is therefore very real and powerful enough to observe this effect (this phenomenon) on tests without great technical subtleties. I needed a few more years, after reading Marigny, to build my own method. I retained its general principles but my tests showed that I had to change the general framework of my game criteria. They are basically the same principles as Marigny, but not the same spins played. When we test variants with a positive effect, we try to reduce the number of spins played to increase the % profit. The problems encountered were, for me, that the gains were distributed fairly harmoniously. This proved a homogeneous effect obtained by the selection (thus effective principles). In such a case, we can only repeat a test with a stricter variant, to increase the advantage.

So, I tested a total of 4 major kinds of variants with different versions. My last variant, the most successful ended with a version 8! For the pleasure of research, I'm working on a fifth variant, which will be on the concept of "trend", a game to capture the series. My goal is to find a higher advantage than that with Marigny's principles. This project should occupy me for 500 or 1000 hours. The question of growing and evolving is posed by this topic, I think that my answer corresponds to the subject and the fundamental questioning of Scepticus!  ;)
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 17, 2019, 07:48:55 PM
Third ) A single number will hit within expectation within 13 attempts
Really ?

It sounds useless doesn't it?  The only reason I quoted it is to illustrate that there are practical limits to number behavior.  A good example of how these limits can be used in a practical way is the 8 chop statistic.  if we examine the path to 8 we will find:

1   67539   0.8075060677435168   # of sessions where a Loss occurs
2   12939   0.154700558351965      1 in 25
3   2541   0.03038056409091453   1 in 132
4   486      0.00581068640227645   1 in 596   
5   103      0.001231482920647067   1 in 2221
==================================================================
6   23      0.000274991331794976   
7   7      0.00008369301402455792   
8   1      0.00001195614486065113   1.0000000000000000


This statistical model is very helpful to choose a good bet sizing for our presses as we continue to encounter chop.

8 chops, as is 12 successive misses, is a once in a lifetime event (if that).

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 18, 2019, 01:02:25 AM
Third
I think it was Vitorwally that posted a chart that showed that the expectancy  for a 50% chance of a single number is 25.2 spins .   I prefer to rely on his chart  !
For  the chance of 2 Dozens on the first spin coupled with  1 dozen on the next spin  is -oh. well - work it out  !
Basically, any stats have to be interpreted . Therein lies the problem .

As to the Subject of the thread  . If someone has been playing roulette for a number of years and has found his niche then he has no need for further growth as a roulette player . Evolving is for those who have not yet found a profitable strategy .
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 18, 2019, 01:25:39 PM
Growing or evolving as a roulette player should lead a player through the standard process of understanding (as a newbie to the game) system/strategy/method play to a final realization that the game depends on the accuracy of prediction. The best way to achieve desired results is to study AP methods of prediction including the many factors that have a distinct influence on the accuracy of prediction.

Mastering AP in my mind is the graduation point of any serious player. To be content with anything less is to accept second best. AP is constantly changing to adapt to subtle changes introduced by the casinos so learning and adapting remains ongoing.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Rinad on March 18, 2019, 02:58:42 PM


   growing and evolving as a player has to do with accepting other's views.

  Micky, every time I read your posts I feel that hatred towards liberals and everything Scepticus is writting.
it gets tiring to read your negativity and constant attack. you are probably not a bad guy at heart but man, can you just lay off the criticism of his nine block system ? 
you dont like it then dont talk about it, you could learn something from it possibly.

so sick of your bull.....lets grow up and evolve as players and human beings !!!

  God bless,

Rinad
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 18, 2019, 04:43:33 PM
Rinad, you feel the "hatred" I have for liberals because I've stated my stance as such. Am I not as relentless as liberals are when it comes to responding to "attacks"?

I find your opinion to be biased. The 9 blocks is not worth the space it has been given on the forum (free space) because it will fail every player trying to generate a decent profit with it. Septic believes otherwise and is not open to fair debate. I will continue trashing it because to me it is trash. At least other member can read why I say its trash and then they can decide for themselves if they really want to invest time and effort into it.

You have given Septic the much needed acceptance he desperately needs.

If my posts offend you then simply don't read them. I will not bow down to liberals and snowflakes for the sake of being politically correct. Fu*k that for a joke.

I am capable of mature and open debate but will treat people like immature teens if they behave that way. Would you perhaps like me to ignore the condescending behavior of the liberal group that are hell bent on directing their BS in my direction? How many names have I been called, how many insults have come my way? Ken and MrPerfect are also in the line of fire. In case you forget we were labelled "the Triad"! BUT... not one of us plays the victim card.

A final point: We don't grow by simply accepting the views of others. We grow by challenging those views and only when we reach consensus do we accept the specific point of view.

As I said, if you don't like my posts then don't read them. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 18, 2019, 06:32:30 PM
Third, indeed, a group of dominant numbers can pass another group, for a phenomenal duration, exceeding that of a human life or more (my words are based on the explanations of a famous mathematician). Do you want to study "number performance"? What do you mean exactly? Looking for tools, tracks?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Rinad on March 18, 2019, 08:33:13 PM


   have some class Micky and you dont need to agree anymore than having to s*** on things you dislike.
what a dis-service for others who would love to join in this forum and share there ideas.
no wonder it is so limited to the same few who are always posting.

we can learn from anyone, and even if youdislike the 9 block someone else may see something they could use for their own good.

how hard is it to see that???

Rinad
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 18, 2019, 09:42:06 PM
Still biased Rinad.

Have you ever seen a PC roulette spin? In the game you have winners and losers. Fact.
Forums are designed for people to learn through debate, the more robust, the better.

An attempt was made to humiliate me in my first thread I started on this forum. That did not stop me from posting and starting threads that many have benefited from. I say deal with it and that is exactly what I have done.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: kav on March 18, 2019, 10:15:52 PM
Please avoid personal remarks. I have not much time to moderate the boards, so the easy solution is to start banning members. Thanks for your cooperation.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 19, 2019, 01:02:28 AM
Third, indeed, a group of dominant numbers can pass another group, for a phenomenal duration, exceeding that of a human life or more (my words are based on the explanations of a famous mathematician).

This is very interesting.  I have studied number performance over many millions of spins and only find one grouping.  There is no sequence of spins that can have more than one grouping but the amazing thing is that the worst grouping at no time becomes dominant, not a single number!

Quote
Do you want to study "number performance"? What do you mean exactly? Looking for tools, tracks?

I need to apply myself to work with large volumes of output and quantify them in a viewer that can allow me to study the behavior of various numbers.  I don't have the "ummmf" I need to do this. :'(

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 19, 2019, 11:18:12 AM

I see a lot of misunderstanding between the participants of this discussion.
In my theory there  are no chances as inside or outside bets, even chances , dozens, corners etc.
There are only 37 chances the so called number bets. All these 37 number bets can be studied on there own.
Some features are common but they  also have also different features.
All 37 number bets will end with a loss in the long run. The end of a long run is infinity But the start of the long run is different for  the bets.The 37 number bet start with the very first spin the one number bet start after more than millions spins. A normal play session is mostly a short run session.

Therefore my research is focused on the features of the short run events voor the most played systems.

Another misunderstanding is the D`Alembert betting. This is also value for the Fibonacci and the La Bouchere betting. In publication they  are called roulette systems. This is wrong, they are betting selection. Betting selections can be played with every number bet.

In my blog I have explained that these selections have no advantages. I have pointed out this with Excel programs of different chances.

A roulette system is a tool for playing roulette,  but without a strategy  every system will fail. In my videos I try to show my methods based on my theory. With my explanation of roulette , my computer research and now my videos  share my knowledge and experience.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 19, 2019, 11:30:40 AM
A roulette system is a tool for playing roulette,  but without a strategy  every system will fail.

How would one calculate the DTOP for their strategy?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 19, 2019, 12:22:57 PM
I don't agree, Dobbelsteen, that the D'Alembert, Fibonnacci  etc. are Bet Selection methods  and your betting both Red and Black on the same spin is also wrong .
The maths of roulette are relentless and need to be respected .
 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 19, 2019, 02:58:08 PM
Third for a strategy there is no DTOP. A method consist of three important elements 1  the system,2  the bet selction and3  the strategy. The problem is that all three elements are called systems in many papers. This is the cause of a large misunderstanding.

Playing Red and Black in de videois caused by the case I played  in the beginning the Red and black hotspot systems in the same time.

Playing real roulette, I play more than one method and then it can happen too. One chip on Red and Black is the same as a 36 number bet. The DTOP is vey small . A profit is impossible. DTOP is not an absolute number. In this case DTOP is reached, the first time the zero falls
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 19, 2019, 03:07:42 PM
Does a short term session with a strategy have the same statistical features as a short term session with a system?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 19, 2019, 07:45:42 PM

MrPerfect says this in the topic "Progressions vs flat betting" on March 17, 2019. "Wise (moderate) negative progression may be very good where it is reduced". And in this topic, Dobbelsteen also seems to affirm things in the same sense as MrPerfect.

It seems important that I explain in detail this "mechanical and structural" loss of progressions in loss with a winning method. For this explanation, it is simpler to take EC. With a winning method, we have more hits earned than lost hits (easy). There are therefore more earned periods (of any length). If we mobilize a bankroll by watching the losing side of the game, our bankroll will be less often mobilized, compared to the gain side that comes more often. The "structural" defect of loss progression is generated by this side of the game that comes less often. This means that the units of the bankroll are less often in action. It is a capital that sleeps (more often). It is also a "mechanical" problem because we will not find a single variant capable of correcting this structural defect of loss progression on a winning method. On the other hand, a progression in gain can bring a nice additional advantage (to flat betting) if we study our selection correctly. I can not give a solution because it is in relation to % profit. The principle is to progress on the side which also has periods of more frequent and longer earnings.

The explanation is simple but we must believe that it has been 15 years that roulette forums experienced players transmit this misconception of an advantageous use of negative progression. Perhaps because it is a collective culture and the progression in loss seems logical (in appearance). But it must be said that losing methods abound in books, on the net (or forums), so it is not surprising that on the basis of a losing game, the reflex "progression loss" is inevitable.

I answer Scepticus about players who win at roulette and come, nevertheless, to roulette forums. Do not believe that the winners are all experts on all aspects of roulette. If they bought their method, it is possible that they play "winning" without having a great knowledge of roulette and hazard. Another argument. The winners, especially at the EC, are happy to use the paroli (play the bet + the gain). It is therefore a progression in gain. Paroli is also used by blackjack card counters. There is a reason for this (blackjack is the game where there have been the most simulations done). Finally, to obtain the biggest profit with a progression in gain, one should not use the same approach as the progression in loss.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 19, 2019, 07:56:51 PM
Flat betting can be part of a progression system as Rinad has most recently pointed out.  Flat betting is a great part of a "progression when in loss".  I am also a huge fan of the "Recovery Paroli" which is a VERY powerful method of recovering profit while minimizing risk; Parolis' do not have to be 100%!
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 19, 2019, 08:27:46 PM
Nope. Third . nope .  Flat Betting and  Progressions are two different animals so  A Flat Bet  cannot be part of a Progression. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 20, 2019, 02:39:52 PM
After a losing flat bet event , you have  to increase your bet to recover the loss or at least to minimize the lost.

Martingale as part of a winning method is the most promising bet selection.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Third on March 20, 2019, 05:18:34 PM
Does a short term session with a strategy have the same statistical features as a short term session with a system?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 20, 2019, 05:46:22 PM
Short run sessions of  a system have on average all the same features. Strategies have no fixed  rules . There is no strategy the same.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 20, 2019, 06:34:06 PM
@Stratege.... you qwoted me wrong on previous page. I was speaking about use of negative progression with reduced TIME to play on winning situation.
   When expectation is positive ( more hits then due to simple probability), you can push for win in present moment using moderate negative progression...
    ... imagine 50/50 situation with positive expectation. In 10 spins you ( according to probability) are expected to hit 5 times. But due to % in your favor, it may be 6 or 7. Just an example.
   You can reasonably expect to be in 6-7 hits +/-2... so 4 is minimum.
   It's easy to device progression where you will break even or win on majority of situations in any 10 spins.
   That's the idea... unless you consider to stay there forever instead of taking your money now.
   Reasoning behind this approach is to win money on spin by spin basis instead of only when your edge dominate.
   Time is often crucial factor in roulette,  especially when you play with edge and do not want casino to realise it.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 20, 2019, 08:55:41 PM
Reasoning behind this approach is to win money on spin by spin basis instead of only when your edge dominate.     mr Perfect

Is that not what is called greed .?  With an  Edge  you need only make Flat Bets to profit.
 That is the Expectation anyway !  ;D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 20, 2019, 11:17:40 PM
Players value their time, Scepticus.  That's exactly the reason.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 21, 2019, 07:21:14 PM

I think I perfectly understood your point of view, MrPerfect. You talk about negative progression on a winning method. A "moderate loss progression" remains a progression in loss. And I say that Dobbelsteen also asserts the same idea, saying that it is the "martingale" that is ideal on a winning method. The martingale is a progression in loss (1-2-4-8 ...). Frankly, I'm waiting for explanations, because I do not understand how a very experienced player can justify such an idea?  :o

I will soon make a new demonstration on the superiority of the gain progression on a winning method. I'm the only one on this forum who makes demonstrations "to assert things". This is fun! But I want to clarify that my demonstrations, or my messages in general, don’t seek to criticize my interlocutors. I am doing this for the evolution of all.

To tell the truth, I would be wrong and Third demonstrate that he can win with a loss in progress on a losing method. Demonstrating this would be far more extraordinary than I can demonstrate. I would be happy for him, and he would teach me something. I would like to be shown that I am wrong, I would be very happy to learn something about this theme of progressions. I don’t have that egocentrism that wants to be right for nothing (Socrates said "the worst kind of ignorance is when you do not know you're ignoring."). That's the reality that interests me, to such an extent that I want to be wrong the day Third gives us his final results.

Forgetting one's ego to be open to the universal is a much more rewarding experience for me, to the point that I would be wrong to learn. To want others to be better than oneself, that's one of my hopes.

In my next demo, I will use the positive progression from 0 to 1. This very simple variation of the wagers will be explained on the winning side of a selection and also on its losing side. The difference is quite surprising. And all players will be able to control my assertions very simply.

MrPerfect thinks that "Reasoning behind this approach is to win money on spin by spin instead of only when your edge dominate". Then everyone will understand that the opposite of this idea is a better solution! That's why I chose a demonstration with a bet equal to 0, to show that without playing some spins, we win more!

I immediately respond to MrPerfect's discretionary idea, with a "moderate loss progression". Loss progression is the worst way to hide. But, a player who wins and increases his bet, it is this fact that all the "good" clients of the casinos, they blaze. The progression in gain is the best way to earn more and also to remain discreet! I don’t know if I already said on this forum this technical truth which has been imposed in my researches "a good principle always have several advantageous effects"!
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 22, 2019, 03:57:55 PM
Oh boy, aren't you a credit unto yourself.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 22, 2019, 05:12:00 PM
I always wondered ,why folks tolk garbage? It would be less boredom to read if folks really did it on purpose but knew their s***t.  like to hide some info or miss lead. .. smoke screen may be good where it's needed.
   But posting only garbage..  we are trying to preserve forum space, aren't we?
   @ stratege... lack of imagination,  it's not a sin if recognised,  but ignorance about own lack of imagination ... that's not fun at all.
   You are better to provide according to expectations you did set in place. You are very welcome to do so, if not, name calling is coming to your side... motivated name calling. I'm not listing names still because you up to date got benefit of doubt.  Present your case strongly.
 Nothing personal, truth is only thing that matters to me.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 23, 2019, 04:43:06 PM
Progression is just a tool... it's like a hummer or knife... very good help where is needed but can smash or cut a finger if user is not good.
   In general, negative progressions are good where expected no more losses then " x"...
   Positive progressions are good where repetitive hits are present.
   There are mixes as well... negative till win, positive after win. Even demn flat bet is a form of progression in the right hands...
   Progressions are just what they are..  it's a way to bet. If bettor sucks, no progression help and a good bettor may get out with grand martingale. Everyone gets what they deserve, roulette is very fair game to separate people by their intelligence and determination. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 23, 2019, 07:01:39 PM

I reply to MickyP's message "Oh boy, you're not a credit to yourself". It is true that players rarely have a philosophical or spiritual approach to watch the game, roulette. But that may come. It is still more positive to expect and have expectations than this message from MickyP, March 14, in this topic:

"Logic and the ability to be rational is not innate in people. It has much to do with IQ. The higher ones IQ the more natural logic and the rational thinking appears to be. There is not enough time in an average human life to learn logic and rational thought. You have it or you do not. My stumbling across what you call "gap reducer" in the Dozen Drive was not an accident at all ".

Your intelligence, MickyP, forgot that this way of reducing the gaps was presented by palestis, 19 months earlier. You know it because you thanked palestis for his message, which was a huge success. Your "douzen drive" is a "twin sister" variant. Thank you for quoting your sources whenever possible, and without glorifying your person and your "intelligence". You also push your arguments to say that your "douzen drive" is, for you, a concept to build a winning game!

I need to warn the inexperienced players that the observation of a signal like XXY (2 dozen) with palestis or the variant of MickyP has no predictive force to win (then with a progression). The explanation is in my message "Law of small numbers and law of great numbers". This very useful message was however denigrated by MrPerfect, without rational explanation. I repeat that these two laws make it easy to explain the failure of almost all the methods (except the methods on the "heat of the numbers" which concern other laws). Presenting simple realities is very complicated on a roulette forum. Without wishing to diminish the efforts of palestis, I will say that some mechanisms on his XXY model are missing to obtain a more powerful effect, and above all, I think he understood that a progression in loss is not a supplementary means.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 23, 2019, 08:35:49 PM
Hahaha...yea baby! PMS, give yourself a Noddy badge; you deserve it.

You really think you know it all, don't you? You have a few breadcrumbs of an idea on how I approach the game. I see and make use of the dozen drive in its simplistic form to identify a potentially hot target that is played in a totally different way...A different method is used.
I do this because I think rationally about problems I face. Yes, not everyone is born with the ability to think rationally and you lack that ability in a big way.
You are bringing nothing new to the forum. Any idiot can read and recite from books that clever people have written. It doesn't make you clever in your ability to parrot the words of others. You are unable to present a rational argument.
I give credit where credit is due and Palestis is a player of note. Players will learn way more from his threads and posts than your rambling dribble you toss into threads started by people with the innate ability to approach a problem with logic and think rationally to reach a solution.

Please take the advice MrPerfect gave you very seriously.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 24, 2019, 01:29:29 AM
PMS please quote me correctly in the future and try to understand my words.
I use small easy to understand words so you shouldn't have much problem understanding. Use Google if you don't understand.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 08:45:55 AM
Coming back quite often to check this tread..  and nothing.
  Stratege,  where promised revelations? Does it takes so long to simulate betting with progressions and post graphs? Or you do not know where to look for spin samples?
    I get a feeling that you collecting spins manually and designing betting simulator from the scratch. ... together with the method.
   Or you are waiting that "spiritual" thing will do it for you?  Well, l didn't expect any other from fellow who can't copy/ paste to make proper quotes. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 24, 2019, 08:56:48 AM
Presumably, my messages are for MrPerfect "garbage". I will develop on the shortcomings of this member with vulgar vocabulary. MrPerfect evokes his "progress in moderate loss" to remain discreet: "Time is often crucial factor in roulette, especially when you play with edge and do not want casino to achieve it." (March 20, 2019, in this topic).

Demonstration 1: When the "good customers" of roulette win, they are "confident", so they increase their bet. But MrPerfect says he does not increase, even with a mountain of chips won in front of him! When the "good customers" lose, they are "hesitant", they play less chips or change the table.MrPerfect does the opposite, when he loses and loses again, he shows he is in "trust", he increases his bet (according to his negative progression), again and again (moderately).Who can believe that MrPerfect understands the art of discretion?

Demonstration 2: In the same message, MrPerfect explains that with a +2 advantage (4 losses against 6 gains) out of 10 spins, his negative progression makes a profit. He can verify that with the progression of Alembert it would take 5 terms (15 units) for an average profit of +6 (profit of 40% of the bankroll). In flat bet it would take 5 units for an average of +2 (40% of the bankroll too). The negative progression becomes useless in this case which was nevertheless very advantageous for this progression. A very simple gain progression, with 5 units, makes a profit of 44%, so a little better than the flat bet, despite a very short game time.

All members who wish to have a detailed explanation of the principle of the progression in gain and why there is an additional profit, can contact me in private message. I said that I have not found any book that explains a winning method + a progression in gain. There is probably none. The reason for this is that authors publish losing methods and adding a progression to loss makes it possible to hide certain realities. It's easy to pick or build a negative progression that works long enough on a losing flat bet selection. I do not give in this topic this "document" because MrPerfect said he had a list of words against me if my demonstration was not convincing (for him). I am not the servant of his egocentrism, I will not yield to his threat...
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 24, 2019, 09:04:10 AM
... Demonstration 3: MrPerfect says again in this same message that the goal with its negative progression is to take money "spin by spin", and not only when the advantage is dominant. He therefore frequently uses his "suicide progression". I said and demonstrated that a negative progression is structurally losing. I will explain through my document in private message the very simple reason to this phenomenon and it will understand how to do with the progressions in gain (on winning method). But, after so many years, MrPerfect understood yesterday that his "moderate loss progression" story was ultimately losing, because he now says, "In general, negative progressions are good" "Positive progressions are good where repetitive hits are present. ". Such a change in methodology is necessarily an insurance against ridicule. But, MrPerfect is making new mistakes! Situations where we can predict that losses will stop to play "negative progression" are actually too rare. This scenario is in contradiction with his idea of ​​wanting to win "spin by spin" with his progression in loss. I will explain again in private message why this idea is bad (it is an idea, not a technique, because a technique aims at the efficiency). Also, his idea about using positive progression is wrong (it's not when the reps came that we need to increase). This does not need explanation to be understood, but arguing precisely the harmony between spin selection and positive progression helps to understand the general mechanisms.

Demonstration 4: MrPerfect says at the end of his last message that winning is a matter of "intelligence and determination". I will reassure inexperienced players. Roulette is not a problem of intelligence as MrPerfect & MickyP say, it is a problem of logic and mechanics (or mechanisms). Some good authors bring serious foundations and the rest will be a path of "trial and error". I believe I have presented enough personal situations in my messages to make it clear that we can do a disappointing test, but by observing all our information, we will see anomalies, phenomena that show themselves partially. And it is there, often, that the real work begins. This requires, of course, determination but absolutely not a particular intelligence. Rather, we must have a structured reasoning, because the mechanisms of hazard, which form advantageous phenomena, are simple but very discrete.

To conclude, MrPerfect demanded a demonstration on the concept of positive progress saying that it is "garbage", but now he tells his "mix ... negative until the victory and positive after the victory". So who lacked imagination? But this is not a real solution. So MrPerfect will still need a lot of creative imagination, because there is not a single author to roulette that has presented a winning method + progression in gain (or losing method + progression gain). I am very surprised that a "very experienced" player says so many things away from good principles to win, and also that he completely changes his "ideas" and reveals even more that he does not understand the use of progressions. I say once again that, if a winning player can not realize that his negative progression is necessarily a disaster, how can we believe that he is a real technician, and a real winner having built his own method? All members and visitors will also find that all other members who claim to have a winning method do not come on the forum for several days! This is the right time to present arguments, to improve if I can, some methods (winners or losers)!   :o 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 24, 2019, 10:55:56 AM

Since years i write about my roulette research .The results of my  research i have published on more than one forum. I have developed a whole new theory about how to play roulette. With Excel notes I explained my discoveries . Nowadays I show my experience and skill with the videos. An attended follower can determine there is very less attention .There is no active member on this forum who has the courage to show there ideas with a video. I am 84 and why I am the only one. Too many words on this forum.

My video list: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmaICiSg2EPiNQtk6-GdM_3lMzOm1XMZN
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 24, 2019, 11:16:26 AM
PMS, Your dribble is your trademark.

Are you aware that MrPerfect  is an AP and not system player?
This means that he plays with an advantage of accurate prediction so any type or use of progression will by all accounts be beneficial to him.

Why don't you start your own thread? Call it "The Dribble Stratege" or something along those lines.

You could learn a lot from Dobbelsteen.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 01:31:40 PM
@ Strategy... lm waiting for demonstration easy to follow by any member  with graphs and explanations.  Your mumbling doesn't cut it, sry.
   If you are in no way related to the game itself, what are you doing here anyway? Promoting how to bet on winning method? Then post some pictures, that's all it takes, well , sample used from known repository helps.
   No need to play squirrel secrets and invite folks to pm. I personally do not need it, and anyone who needs can make direct qwestion on the forum or ask me to sudjest a book.
   BTW,  it's a bit stupid to speak about all autors,  how to bet is public domain long ego. It has been described in many science papers , books and everyone who want to know knows it already.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 24, 2019, 01:45:03 PM

When roulette and poker players claim to have an edge, I have no source to understand that meaning.

Here the definition of edge from Wikipedia

In my feelings an edge means an advantage. No roulette player has an advantage on the random feature of the roulette device or the pseudo RNG.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 24, 2019, 02:13:58 PM
Dobbelsteen
No. 3  of Wikipoedia gives the definitiion.
It is a claimed mathematical advantage over the House Edge.

incidentally, you  give bad advice when you bet both Red and Black on the same spin and advocate using the Martingale Progression.
Incidentally micky P is wrong in claiming that  Mr Perfect is an AP. He is a VB player . There is a difference..

I think Stratege  argues well and Micky P and Mr Perfect are better at abuse than reasoned argument .

I  also think kav should put a stop to personal abuse rather han just threaten to delete posts which contain them .
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 04:21:18 PM
@Stratege..
  Your words...
In my next demo, I will use the positive progression from 0 to 1. This very simple variation of the wagers will be explained on the winning side of a selection and also on its losing side. The difference is quite surprising. And all players will be able to control my assertions very simply.
[/size]
[/size]
[/size] I am waiting....


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Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 04:39:58 PM

I think Stratege  argues well and Micky P and Mr Perfect are better at abuse than reasoned argument .

I  also think kav should put a stop to personal abuse.
   I think it as well. Simple presence of you and stratege at this forum does nothing more then wasting precious forum space. You both have a lot in common. You both distort what other people say and have nothing more to offer besides words without meaning. It's not surprising that you think " he argues well"... you both run as a dog with tale between your legs when called on your empty words...but keep barking.
   I let you play for 50p keeps and him reading books ... both of you aren't really worth my attention. I wish there would be option to omitted post by specific member's ... every time l read your or his post is like to step on the piece of shi^t.   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 04:47:15 PM

When roulette and poker players claim to have an edge, I have no source to understand that meaning.

Here the definition of edge from Wikipedia

In my feelings an edge means an advantage. No roulette player has an advantage on the random feature of the roulette device or the pseudo RNG.
   It's like driving. It's enough to find it ones ( edge) to realise that it's a good thing. But as long as relationship between edge and advantage is something that you " have a feeling " about... 84 years old you say... not wonder that your video states " roulette is a game played for pleasure"... get a life , Bro.  Normal people are in it for money.
   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 24, 2019, 05:07:27 PM

MrPerfect must understand that rudeness, vulgarity and threat are not my values, so I refuse to give a demonstration aimed mainly at a person without education. The other members will have a document if they want it. But why MrPerfect wants my demonstration, since he says that she is already in the books? If this demonstration is already in the books, it should already be on the forums of the whole world! How many messages on the forums talk about the progression in gain (I do not mean to do a paroli from time to time)? The problem of profit maximization arises when we have a winning method, otherwise the player will struggle with his negative progression.

I've already discussed this problem with Third in a topic, talking about "game moves". We must understand that the progression in loss is a passage in force expensive, the players know what they risk with this game. A solution "progression" with a winning method is different, it is not the same context. It's even natural for a winner to analyze their history and understand what they can do with the movements of their selection. In private message, I will show how, with the bet "in progression and regression", from 0 to 1, we get a better advantage than the flat bet! I do not know a single book that explains this financial advantage.

Scepticus, thank you for understanding my messages, and for saying things that are really very relevant. Yes, abusive words are not acceptable, this prevents new members from registering or participating.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 05:19:41 PM
Stratege,  many years ego Kelly has formulated his creteria  ( positive progression ) while working for Bell labs. Up till today it was mentioned in more then 50 math papers, more then 100 people defended their doctorate and it was mentioned in 5 books l am aware.
   If you think that you descovered something new, you are 2 generations late.
  Anyone can Google " Kelly criteria " and get all info about it available.
   So why bother to pm you?
If you do not like me being rude to you, stop referencing mine posts out of context and qwoting me changing original statements. 
 No one needs your squirrel secrets. Keep your book discoveries to yourself.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 24, 2019, 05:32:54 PM
I see a long scam coming about with the pm drive. This concern with new members and their comfort on the forum is like holding a dripping icecream in front of a child on a hot summer day. Pedophile type behavior to want to take advantage of the meek in private. What a joke!
PMS, your condescending attitude is insulting and abusive. You and Septic are birds of a feather and you both whin like little piglets when confronted.

VB is a part of AP. The fact remains that MrPerfect plays with an advantage, an edge if you wish.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 24, 2019, 05:43:06 PM
MrPerfect

Please  tell me where I have misrepresented  others' words . I  simply have repeated what you have written . If they  are not what you and others  meant -  why is that my fault ? Why is it  my fault that others don't remember what they previously posted ?
 
You continue to insult and avoid rational discussion. My 9 Blocks is trash.No proof -  just blaa-blaa- blaa.  I  offered you the chance to show what you could do in a  real &M casino. You  declined saying you had better things to do like winning thousands of £s  at roulette and Bitcoin . Where s YOUR proof ? None . Except  a claim in words - not deeds .
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 24, 2019, 05:54:59 PM
AP players use a computer to aid them while VB players don't .

Advantage Play refers to any method which claims  to have  a mathematical afvantage over the HE.
An odd number and an even number are both  numbers but they are  different and need to be recognised as such . Just as AP and VB need to be distinguished from each other .
Abuse  is still the norm for some members.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 24, 2019, 06:13:44 PM

Here is a reference (Kelly criteria) that will interest the winning players of this forum! We must distinguish scientific research and application for roulette. In Spain, researchers have discovered that combined losing selections bring fewer "losses". But it is not exploitable for gambling. As far as I am concerned, my main references are from 1926 and 1928. But the use of a progression in gain has not been studied.

Again, why so many posts on "Kelly criteria" and no discussion on this forum or elsewhere? MrPerfect has years of reading on "positive progression", but would that explain why yesterday he started talking about positive progression for his game? He has theories now but it is like the law of the third, it is a theorization of the players that brings nothing more than observations elusive in practice. Because it is in the combination of laws between them that we find the phenomena we seek. So articles in profusion on "Kelly criteria", but nothing on the forums! Why Mrperfect has never opened a discussion on this very important topic?

My behavior is not the cause of Mr.Perfect's impoliteness, but of his personality. Ignoring this is still an artifice in his power play. All the animals of the earth will go there!
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 24, 2019, 07:13:16 PM
I see a long scam coming about with the pm drive. This concern with new members and their comfort on the forum is like holding a dripping icecream in front of a child on a hot summer day. Pedophile type behavior to want to take advantage of the meek in private. What a joke!
PMS, your condescending attitude is insulting and abusive. You and Septic are birds of a feather and you both whin like little piglets when confronted.

VB is a part of AP. The fact remains that MrPerfect plays with an advantage, an edge if you wish.


MickyP's words, images, are so vulgar and out of touch with the reality of a discussion about roulette that I want to know if he is in psychiatric follow-up, because his imagination is regularly in a nauseating register? A person who invents absurd images is directly concerned by his delirious narratives. This is called the "projection mechanism". It is common for psychotics to express this kind of delirium, without any element belonging to the context of reality. This nauseating speech at MickyP replaces a technical discourse on roulette that he does not have. He lacks words on the understanding of roulette and his techniques, so he replaces this emptiness with delirious images that soothes his psychic tensions to not be up to the discussion. He is in a childish position. He catches up with strange images to draw attention to something other than roulette. Let's admit that this image of a scene with a child and an adult against a backdrop of pedophile delirium deserves Kav's explanation. Or this vision of piglets as he speaks of two humans. Really, I'm sure that MickyP does not have "winning methods + negative progressions" that bring him success in roulette. It also belongs to his imagination, which is out of touch with reality.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 24, 2019, 08:51:11 PM
PMS,  Now you are acting like a piglet caught by its hind leg.
I touched a nerve with you....hahaha!

What discussion? You post a lot of broken and incoherent sentences with words that are misused. An abuse of the English language.

I will not share and I have stated this on a number of ocassions. I remain firm on this.

I call it like I see it snowflake. Such entertainment to see you crumble under pressure. Get over your piglet phobia and put an apple in your mouth while you get roasted...lol

I am a creative person and I write a lot so I appreciate your noticing my rather vivid imagination.  I write for fun and for money as well. I'm busy writing another book as we speak but hey its not roulette. I do have some piglet type characters in the book though.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 24, 2019, 10:01:35 PM
 @Sratege
    Progression is just a progression. Only thing it does is to bring more money to the table. It's not solution to your problems be it positive or negative.
   What is a point to speak about positive progression with you personally?  Do you have a winning method and can calculate expected edge boundaries ? Because if not, positive progression will do same harm as negative. With no edge you will lose money, only thing that will be progressed is your speed to lose.
   As l told you, keep your squirrel secrets to yourself. These who have a use for positive progression ( traders, banks, insurance companies, bookies,investment & hedge fonds, serious roulette players) they all already figured it out. And system players do not require positive progressions to help them lose. They can do it without your help.
    I'm waiting for your ludicrous demonstration up till now. So everyone can see what type of bird you are.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: kav on March 24, 2019, 11:14:16 PM
I'm gonna lock this thread if you don't start acting like gentlemen.
Thanks
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 01:16:35 AM
A child “ evolves “  into a “ Man “ . The evolution stops there .
The “ Man “ doesn’t try to “ evolve “ into a hybrid-  Man/ Fish-or-    Man / Bird  or Man / Fish / Bird . He mainly  tries to be the best  that a man can be .

Similarly, if  a “ Bettor “ finds a “ profitable method “ he has no need to try to find a “ Better Method “ before trying to  “ Better “ his “ Profitable Method “.

If you have a profitable method why change ? You may -but may not - find a  better method. If you do not , might you have wasted time in trying  to re- invent the wheel ?

Be  content with any profit . Little profits add up .
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Greek on March 25, 2019, 05:20:45 AM
I just came back from a trip to Las Vegas. What a great stay. I was playing at the Venetian one night. The table minimum was 25.00. I was surrounded by college kids on spring break playing with daddy's money. Anyway, I was hitting intermittently, hit one, miss two, hit, hit, miss three spins, playing 7 numbers. Needless to say, I had quite a few chips in from of me.
The players started to place their chips on my chips because they said he's lucky so they followed whatever I played. I have a ritual that I do when I leave a table. I place 10.00 each on six numbers, 1, 2, 27, 28, 0, 00, yes, American double wheel. The first two numbers that I place my chips on are 0, 00. These guys stacked the 0, 00, giving no attention to the other numbers that I placed.

They did not notice that I had placed 100.00 chips on 27 and 28. I covered them with roulette chips when I placed the bets. 10.00 on 1 and 2. The ball had fallen onto the double zero. The table cheered, total chaos. In a slow movement, the ball jumped into the number 27. I was standing near the wheel and I stopped the dealer from scooping the chips by yelling, STOP, in my loudest voice. She stopped and the pit boss came over. I said look, the ball is in number 27.

It would have been a disaster if she scooped the chips because I had 100.00 on number 27. They would have had to refer to the camera, which means I would have been stuck there for awhile. The other players were upset the double zero did not come in, even more upset that they did not cover the other numbers I was playing, rookie mistake, evolving as a roulette players.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 25, 2019, 09:08:42 AM
Scepticus; I always play several strategies based on the performance of the last 20 numbers. Do not abuse a strategy with a strategy. An event for a strategy  wagers not on the outcome of a spin. An event expect a winning streak within the bet selection. The hotspot requires 4 chips  and covers 8 numbers. The expectation is a red spin. The hit chance 18/37 x8/18 . As  a insurance for a no hit with a red spin you can place 4 chips on red. A red spin never losses.

For the black hotspot it is the same. 7 Chips on the hotspot and 7 chips on black. When the permanence give triggers for both  strategies  you play on red and black but there is a different with a normal bet  on red and black. For an ignorant player without knowledge about strategies it is a stupid wager.

When the edge is a mathematical advantage, the edge can be computed. But how?

My edge is " The roulette must turn and  I may play".
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 09:20:44 AM
twist and turn how you may Dobbel. betting on both Red and Black on the same spin is NOT a good strategy but a bad one .
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: dobbelsteen on March 25, 2019, 10:39:29 AM
I agree but it  is not one strategy but two strategies. With a large success I play these strategies next to my other favorite strategies in my B&M casino.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 25, 2019, 11:55:11 AM
Playing both colours as a single method is not the approach Dobbelsteen has described Septic. It is Two individual methods played on the same spin but independently of each other.

Septic,  your reasoning on the "halt" of evolution of a player is the very reason Africa is refered to as the dark continent.
A single story house is a house so why improve it if it serves  the purpose of a house?
Why lighten the load on the oxen pulling the sledge by putting wheels on it? It is not my load but the oxen. Why build ships to cross the ocean when we can't see land on the other side?
What we know and think we know is not all there is. There is always room for improvement.
Your understanding of Dobbelsteen's approach above is evidence of limited understanding.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 25, 2019, 12:19:31 PM

I repeat for Mrperfect that he wanted to demonstrate the superiority of the positive progression, but his vulgar speech and his threat with his list of words, morally obliges me to make this demonstration in PM. If MrPerfect does not understand the moral values, it's worrying! His last message still presents his chaotic vision on progressions. I analyze again the movements of his game without rules.

At first for MrPerfect it was "moderate negative growth spin by spin to win". I gave several examples to show that negative progressions (PN) were losing money / flat bet. The loss is structural. The exact explanation is that the PN require a lot of units to the bankroll, to face the worst situation, this situation is rare. So, there is constantly at least 50% of the bankroll that is constantly unused. It is capital that sleeps without making a profit. This negative effect is also increased tenfold on a losing method. That's why I'm talking about "structural loss". This loss is also mechanical because there is no way to change that with a moderate or brutal progression or very slow ... MrPerfect will therefore never be able to make the advantageous demonstration of its "moderate negative progression". The age-old adage "we must never follow the gap" is very clever, I only confirmed this with examples.

MrPerfect has been on notice for the last two days and has changed his speech. Now his game is: negative progression when his losses will soon stop, and positive progression when his gains are linked. I explained that this scenario was improbable, we cannot predict enough the end or the beginning of a movement of the game. Once again MrPerfect shows that it does not understand the use of progressions. This scenario is also the worst, because its bankroll will be very rarely used for its "moderate negative progress". He has changed his strategy for 2 days, but the result is an even bigger disaster! Who has several generations of delay?

What an imagination! Last night, MrPerfect again changed his speech on progressions. He states that there is no difference between negative progression (PN) and positive progression (PP). How can he know since he does not know the PP? He does not know, but he says that overall all progressions are equivalent. MrPerfect must understand that a winning method with a % profit X or Y, will have a different structure than its winning and losing hits. Then, the ideal positive progression will be different. He supposes that more units are needed at the table with any progression! He does not know the mechanical effect of positive progression with a structurally winning method. The losing and winning hits are no longer in balance, so there are fewer losing side series and more winning side series. This particular imbalance, according to the% profit in flat bet, indicates that there will be positive progressions more or less powerful. This is why a positive progression from 0 to 1 has its logic (for example, on a method that gains 3% in flat bet, this progression 0 to 1, brings 20% extra, so + 3.6%) . As we risk less chips than with flat bet (0 to 1), it does not necessarily have a bigger daily bankroll. It depends on the player's strategy.

MrPerfect still says in his last message a huge contradiction. "All serious rouette players have already understood the positive progression." Why then MrPerfect does not understand anything on this subject? He tries everything he can to find a loophole in my speech, but during that time, he tells all his amateurism. It's sad! Scepticus is right, many words, but no rational and technical explanations about roulette.  :o
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 25, 2019, 12:57:32 PM
Without being rude...
   Stratege,   As l see, there is no demonstration that you yourself promised to do. You called yourself upfront to demonstrate something and you didn't. You lied about both your ability to demonstrate something and a subject of demonstration. 
   You wouldn't probably mind to be considered a liar antill this demonstration takes place, would you?
   As forum members who placed their trust in your words aquired no value for their expectations( you simply didn't deliver), there is a need to consider your tolk very cheap in nature. Wouldn't you mind to to be considered cheap tolk champion for a while? At least until you deliver what you promised? 
    I belive my questions are reasonable,  don't you think so?
   If by any case your opinion differs from mine and common logic in general, we will be forced to consider you belonging to " intellectual majority" .
    And finally , all this happend to you not as a result of your personal evolution as a roulette player. In fact, people who evolve do not represent signs of opposite process .
   So ,by being showing yourself as a lying cheap tolking member of intellectual majority ,you display clear signs of degeneration.
   Note that l really try to be as polite as l can in my post.
  Maybe lm mistaken in my assumption about you, and you are nice guy ( not very smart, but nice anyway) , and you really preparing such a demonstration with all ability you got. 
    THEN JUST DO WHAT YOU PROMISED. 
MAKE YOUR WHATEVER DEMONSTRATION.
    For now you demonstrating very weak posture, it's really a loss of time of reading your posts. Please "demonstrate " something different, because  what you demonstrating now, we ( forum readers ) already got enough. 
   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 12:58:57 PM

For the black hotspot it is the same. 7 Chips on the hotspot and 7 chips on black. When the permanence give triggers for both  strategies  you play on red and black but there is a different with a normal bet  on red and black. For an ignorant player without knowledge about strategies it is a stupid wager.Dobbbelsteen.

Ok. Dobbelsteen .
You don't ALWAYS bet both Red and Black .Only when two strategies call for you to do so ?

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 01:06:42 PM
 So ,by being showing yourself as a lying cheap tolking member of intellectual majority ,you display clear signs of degeneration.
   Note that l really try to be as polite as l can in my post.
  Mr Perfect
A contradiction, surely ?
Even after kav threatened to lock the thread if personal insults continued !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 25, 2019, 02:27:57 PM

Scepticus@
   I can see that you do not dispute logic of my arguments or what l say in general.
   What you find contradictory is the fact that l call things by their name.
   As l sou long ego , you do not relate well with common logic.
   Please, explain how calling a liar someone who lie is offensive or insulting.  If my reasons to do so are faulty, l will be happy to admit it and retract  my words.
   So we sou the fact. Empty promise made, lying statement issued, argument for a sake of argument is used and personal image is self compromised.  Should we just let it slide for now and continue to treat this person with respect he doesn't deserve?
   Or do you somehow feel that people lying and pretending is normal and should be wellcome here? 
   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 25, 2019, 02:30:51 PM

At first for MrPerfect it was "moderate negative growth spin by spin to win". I gave several examples to show that negative progressions (PN) were losing money / flat bet. The loss is structural.

Been a while since I was here, and the first thing I notice is that the noble game of roulette seems to not be the center of discussion here, more the usual dick measuring, assorted bull s***ting combined with a good dose of personal attacks. When the owner of a house quits caring, the house is surely doomed to crumble and what I have see happen lately on this forum, owned by KAV, and on this thread,  is no exception. Ok, enough of that...

First of all, Stratege, if you want to make a good impression on people here, and from your many long-winded posts (much like mine here), and I see you do, you should at least try to use the correct English abbrevations for English expressions. You keep using a mixture of English abbrevations related to French expressions which I take is confusing many here and do not convey your message in the positive manner you had hoped.

I take it your latest abbrevation (PN) meant progressivité négative whereas the English abbrevation is actually (NP) meaning Negative Progression in roulette terminology.

Further on , you seem to have this deep desire to "teach" rather than "share" what you believe to be a considerable roulette knowledge compared to many old-timers here. Trust me when I say, it isn´t [impressive], and you don´t [impress]. Above all, people usually don´t react well to other people trying to tell them what to do, or what is considered to be true according to their point of view. If anything take a good look at your own country and especially Paris and the chaos presently going on there.

Roulette is a game of strong wills and often A-type personalities clashing with probability challenges on the highest level. MrPerfect has throughout the years developed his own game based on Visual Ballistics and I believe your game comes from studying and applying roulette-"techniques" proven by applied mathematics that were considered impressive, and "modern", almost over one and a half century ago. Today there are far more efficient ways to demonstrate proper bet selection combined with cutting edge mathematics that makes such selections efficient and not prone to a highly negative error, win-loss ratio wise.

Your best approach here would be trying to address people in a language on par with the skill you expect them to demonstrate, with what I often see in your case instead demonstrates quite embarrassing underestimations of people´s true knowledge base in a game you try to "teach",  rather than "share" with them.

I suggest you choose the latter and hope for the best in their responses.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 02:52:32 PM
Mr Perfect
When you say

" you display clear signs of degeneration. "

That , in the English language , is an insult  .

I think there is quite a bit of "pretending " in this forum and , perhaps, some " lying " too. And , no, I neither indulge in it or condone it .
 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 25, 2019, 04:57:17 PM
 Scepticus,  l come here to speak roulette. This topic is about evolution of roulette player.
  If someone clearly pretends to be a player and mumble something not related to the game itself, lying, distorting words of others,making quotes outside of the contest, taking rediculos obligations voluntarely to prove their point and not delivering... l can not see such a person as evolving roulette player. That's clearly not evolution signs according to the common logic.
   On this basis l say that such a person displays clear signs of degeneration. 
    Do you think differently ? Please motivate your opinion. 
   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 25, 2019, 05:59:10 PM
Thomasleor, I am happy to know that my speeches do not impress you. As I said, I have very simple things to pass on, but if Third confirmed his work, it would be extraordinary. I am in this dynamic that you are describing, for good reason. I believe that those who say what to think, using brutality, would rather be MickyP, MrPerfect and mr J. Do you believe that my intervention to shake some beliefs in some personalities of this forum is not useful? It is curious that you analyze my messages but not those of MickyP and MrPerfect which are a chaos of unfounded beliefs, which are usually imposed or defended by vulgar words. So, I confront the violence of some members by showing them that they do not have a very high technical level.

It is a profit for many members to hear another speech (with simple demonstrations and explanations). We can try to fight brutality with politeness, but when it does not work for several months, you have to respond differently. So I took a position to know without giving up anything (scientific researcher, experienced player, philosopher, intellectual ...) to fight some aggressive personalities. The result is very interesting. MickyP and MrPerfect cannot keep a structured speech on progressions. They cannot admit their shortcomings so they tried to say anything. I think this experience is very important for this forum. Too many members do not have enough technical knowledge on roulette to question certain imposed ideas, or they do not have a scientific background and psychology to confront, technically and psychologically, vulgar and aggressive personalities.

Despite their cunning, I demonstrated that they bluffed. On the side of my behavior, I do not need advice, I know what I have to do with aggressive people. My dynamic had a goal and I think it is achieved (still 1 or 2 messages). Rather advise my opponents to change their behavior (threat, slander, allusion to pedophilia, vulgar images ...) Thomasleor, don't confuse places. I know why I am facing these members and my result is very largely positive. Some impose "destructive violence". I brought a "foundational violence" by strongly demonstrating that they did not have a good technical level and that their rudeness was not dissuasive.

Thank you for letting the champions of vulgarity understand that aggression does not work with everyone. I read your reactions to an aggressive member of this forum, MickyP, and I find that you don't have a moral lesson to give to others. Your reaction was pure release. Apply your ideas to yourself or try your morals on my opponents. Do you know that I derive great satisfaction from this experience in this topic? I am very happy to have experienced these clashes (founders).
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 08:29:26 PM
Mr Perfect

You clearly miss the point I made.  There was and is no need to use insulting language to make your point .

If you think Stratege was lying by not posting what you claim he said he would post , then you only need  to point that out  without recourse to calling him degenerate. As the saying  goes “ Shoot  down the message , not the messenger!
.“

For example. I don’t think you make as much money from betting roulette and Bitcoin as you claim, but  I don’t call you a degenerate.  Do I ?

I now largely obey kav’s stricture that we stop abusing each other. Why don’t you ? Or, do you really want kav to lock the thread ?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 25, 2019, 09:35:02 PM
MrPerfect said it like it is on the top of this page.

What contribution to this specific thread has PMS made? Nothing besides dribble. Now that is degenerate in every way.

This thread was derailed a few pages back already so maybe it's best if it is locked.

Septic, the right thing to do is to answer questions and to be short and to the point. BS sermons are not the way to go.

PMS makes me out to be the bad apple because I challenged the BS he began posting. Anyone that goes back and reads the thread will be able to see who really is at fault. Your Preacher buddy called the three of us "the triad", remember?

He lives up to his new name I gave him.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 25, 2019, 10:01:31 PM
Scepticus,  you are free to take sides as you wish. Where you feel more comfortable. 
    It's not about what we think about each other or people in general. It's not about money l make, that's not your business but mine. I do not show it off, unless by "accident". .. like the last time.
 It's all about tolking roulette. He just doesn't tolk it. He tolks members ...  members get pissed off.
  Looks like you are offended more then him.  Is it your other nik by any chance? You guys have a lot in common.
    I think this thema is closed. Should we speak roulette instead? Tell me what you think about players evolution. 
   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 25, 2019, 10:16:30 PM
I have already posted in this thread   Mr P. my views on evolution. Must I repeat them for you ?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Stratege on March 25, 2019, 11:23:22 PM
Scepticus, I never thought that one of the most experienced members of this forum is so easy to knock (KO) on the subject of progressions. I understand that he now says anything about me, since he is sounded for many more years!  :o

I have a very good creativity (it is an impulse against degeneration). What I brought in this discussion is important. MickyP did not know that a negative progression is useless on a winning method, because he does not have a winning method. MrPerfect changed his mind several times to make it seem like he was using progressions intelligently, but I explained that it was a trick, he does not understand anything. So, he insists again and again for me to explain the positive progression. Maybe he has a winning method, but like a lot of Visual Basic players, he earns very little, so he wants a way to earn a lot of roulette? otherwise why insist for several days?

MrPerfect says that serious players know positive progressions and he also claims to know how to use this progression (his explanation is a disaster). Why ask me for a demonstration on something that is not more complicated than negative progressions? Some members say they are experienced, then they say that beginners must look for themselves, but MrPerfect insults me, if I let him go alone. He is still in his contradiction.

It's easy to take his tests + his game history and observe the structure of winning and losing shots. A winning method offers a wide variety of advantageous positive progressions. Making a better demonstration than flat bet is easy. Even a beginner could get there, if he knows a little negative progressions. But the hard part is finding "the best" positive progression. Some statistical information on our winning selection helps to understand when to increase and when to decrease its bet. With a "positive progression in construction", we must study the winning shots of our method. The rest of the work is like a search with a negative progression. The only difference is that we increase our bet in the opposite direction. There is no particular secret.

For an expert level, it is necessary to use combinatorics to predict certain spins that have a favorable double probability: the probability of the method + the probability of coming out of a negative internal gap (formed between certain indirect spins). But there are also positive internal gaps that indicate that the positive probability of the method will generally be nullified on some spins. I do not develop this very technical part, it's just to show that greater efficiency is always possible. To study this it is imperative to build the combinatorial model and "verify" it.

For this expert level, one must not be degenerated. Aggressiveness is a sign of depression and degeneration, it exhausts the nerves and causes absurd behavior (a vulgar vocabulary, delirious images ...). Some say I did not bring anything into this discussion. It's called denial! This is one of the main signs of psychosis. Denial is a defense mechanism against "fragmentation anxiety" (the division of self-image).
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 25, 2019, 11:50:50 PM
Boy oh boy. What can I say about the pastor other than if I pay attention to him then I'm going straight to hell.

I walk into a casino and after a while I walk out with my win goal in my pocket. How is that possible if like the good pastor says I will lose?

The sermons are long enough for the snake oil to rake effect.

PMS, get your Wikipedia and copy paste in order. Read your posts and try and make sure that they make sense.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 26, 2019, 12:33:15 AM
Refrain,scepticus. refrain !
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 26, 2019, 01:13:16 AM
Stratege,  what exactly is the subject you are posting about ? Im sure you yourself have no idea.
   It's time to post some examples,  without it you are just trolling.  Do not forget that for optimal progression it's nessesary to have a winning method first. 
   It's time to present your case. We are waiting .
Sample , explanation of the method, explanation of progression used and why this progression .... retest on following sample of spins...
   Time for you show off.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 26, 2019, 09:45:43 AM
I am in this dynamic that you are describing, for good reason. I believe that those who say what to think, using brutality, would rather be MickyP, MrPerfect and mr J. Do you believe that my intervention to shake some beliefs in some personalities of this forum is not useful? It is curious that you analyze my messages but not those of MickyP and MrPerfect which are a chaos of unfounded beliefs, which are usually imposed or defended by vulgar words. So, I confront the violence of some members by showing them that they do not have a very high technical level.

Stratege,

I understand your point of view, and need, to "enlighten" this little crowd of specific "friedenstöhrers" (German. disturbers of peace) more than you think. I, myself, have been managing a community of avid roulette players for over 4 years now (VRTech) over at slack.com

After all those years, most of the old members are still present and when new ones joined, have done their best to make them feel welcome into the community where roulette in all its forms is discussed and entertained in a positive manner. We only had one bad apple joining us through the years and I took the extraordinary measure of just throwing him out

Kav had the misfortune of losing one of his best moderators, Reyth,  that contributed with much knowledge, wisdom and enthusiasm to this forum. The after-effect of his absence has not been good and it has basically contributed to the slow and painful demise of this forum. The entropy is subtle, but it is there allright. Kav shows no willingness, or intention, to participate actively, not only as a moderator, but also as one good mind with great experience in roulette and the willingness to share this actively, and not passively with some articles on his main web page. I am sure he has his reasons but that does not excuse inaction in the face of a tiny group of people who prefer their narcissistic impulses and needs overshadow the original intention of this forum - which is, and should be; discussion of the noble game of roulette from any, and all aspects.

I think you are a good poster, and I understand your "French" approach to the roulette subject from what I think are many years of study of old french mathematicians and other gamblers. However, I believe this forum, in its current state is not the right forum for your, shall we say, talents and knowledge. It might be in the future, but presently you are wasting your time because of the refusal of its founder to clean up his own house and initiate and maintain what I mentioned above. Here you will only find verbal abuse, and absence of any intellectual insight into the game of roulette.

Let me finish this literal ingress with following little saying;  Narcissists are a bad branch of humanity that always try to look good, and smart, on the expense of others, while good people with an intellectual acumen, and a generous spirit, try making people smarter and more in tune with their full potential.

Best of luck on your endeavours here, you are certainly going to need much of that.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 26, 2019, 09:57:21 PM
Thomas,  was it a guy from Canada that you call " bad apple" ?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: ignatus on March 26, 2019, 10:28:27 PM
So? The trolls are gone?

My system has been posted now for 1 week, no reply. What happened with this forum? :S
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 26, 2019, 11:28:58 PM
@Ignatus.  There is a chance that your system is very good. There are other chances as well. You doing good job inventing systems. Now it's probably a time to make extensive testing for them.  Make an asid test. Take very big sample , devide it in 2 parts. From first part formulate your system ... how many spins you wanna play, when you take money, how not to lose when you win ( keep profits), stop losses...ets.
   On second part test the system. If it looks good on very big sample with every spin as an entry to the game point... then you probaby found a winner system. Then keep it to yourself and do never post.
  Maybe few people already found systems they can live with,others just belive/ know that such system does not exist. .. or whatever reason. Do never take it personally.  It's a public forum full of people working for casinos, people trying to find validation for their " importance", system sellers and other creepy people ... few of them are unable to follow common logic or accept a truth and some do not understand English and use Google translate  ( or cretins). Real players are so few that you probably could number them with fingers of one hand.
    Ignatus,  keep searching and testing best you can. Find new ways of testing until you are at least 99% sure. And hopefully you will find it, super system you are looking for.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 27, 2019, 12:37:44 AM
Tommy boy , I see you are still poaching.
In your one post you are not very kind to PMS then in your following post you praise him and advertise your site. A man of very poor morals in my eyes.

I do agree that the forum was better run under the moderation of Reyth. Maybe Third can apply for the job (again).

PMS, in all your sermons you have demonstrated nothing. I could prove you wrong but I will not share what I have worked so hard to attain. My methods are not perfect but they are good enough for me to rely on them. I have reached my monthly goals continuously in spite of losses. I had a bad patch of two days of outright loss some time ago but I bounced back and made my target goal. As I said it's not perfect but it works for me.

Ignatus, you are a good system developer. I don't comment on your threads because your systems are designed for online play. MrPerfect has given you some very good advice.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 27, 2019, 06:36:52 AM
Thomas,  was it a guy from Canada that you call " bad apple" ?

No, he was actually from Greece, which is pity, considering the fact he was highly intelligent but with a way oversized ID (Freud) that was too harmful not only to himself, but also to others around him.

The removal of his poisonous persona allowed the good mood, and post enthusiasm, return to the community. Sometimes it takes only that simple action to fix a problem in an ongoing complex system of human interaction.

Through the years I have learned that if you can keep an online community interested and gathered around an interesting subject with a good mood, and active participation that benefit all participants, then very little moderation is necessary. In fact, it becomes counter productive. But for sure, one has to remove the ones being present only for the sake of their narcissistic need to shine light on themselves, instead of directing it on the problem or subject at hand, in this case roulette.

The original idea with Kavouras forum was an excellent one. To invite people from all corners of the world around the subject of roulette. The problem though was that in the end he had too many "channels" outside the main subject which of course attracted the trolls that contributed with little roulette-fact beyond empty boasting, one liners (a way to cloak their own failures and ignorance about the game) and other negative ways that have managed to bring the inevitable entropy acceleration of this once fine place.

I have been accused of having recruited many members from here, but the truth is I have through the years only recruited two members from this forum, both passive readers and not active posters,  but both exceptional roulette players and very knowledgeable in other areas (programming & engineering). The main forums of my recruiting has been bet selection and another one. These members still participate in these forums, but they find the VRTech community has not only enriched their bank accounts but also their personal lives with intruiging problem solving on a weekly basis around the noble subject of roulette.

Hence you can bet your hat that I will never allow a single new member ever poison such a team (we are only 20 members, all active posters and platform testers).

Though I am engaged in a consulting project currently,  if Kavouras asked me to, I would happily sacrifice some evenings each week in helping him fix this forum to align more with his original idea and intention, but my first action would be to remove certain members not contributing with anything more than the counter productive posting and endless expositions of their very poisonous personas.

 Sure, the posting would drop for a week, or so, but soon enough the good posters, including some previously passive readers, would emerge from their caves of indignation having endured the present trolls dancing on the dinner table, see the light and start posting again.

It is in the human nature wanting to express ideas, but never in the face of what is considered danger. If it was otherwise we would have revolutions all over the planet  due to the current sad state of affairs. LOL.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: Dane on March 27, 2019, 07:45:13 AM
AINT you a saint thomasleor? A highly intelligent saint.

Allow me to remind you that you tried to diagnose MickyP ("You suffer from"), though you are no psychiatrist. Still a nice cup of tea from Veda House in Stockholm would not be enough to raise your consciousness to a DECENT LEVEL. Rena rama sanningen.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 27, 2019, 08:24:12 PM
Demn,  Thomas, you like to pose. You recruited 2 exceptional roulette players who are programmers & enginers. TO DO WHAT EXACTLY???  Why in this world such individuals would need you? Where exactly you come into the equation , teach them what? What you can provide for exceptional roulette player? An excel?
    It makes 3 people who likely understood that your stuff is not up to expectations.  My friend from Canada, this high IQ " poisoning guy" and myself. From me you did run. I just asked to look excels you do ( look fancy) and promised never speak about them even if they don't win.
Canada guy lost money...and he is winning player in both black jack and roulette. What happened with this high IQ guy? What did he say ? Something like " it doesn't work, because..."?
  Really,  Thomas, next time you pose to be provider / recruter for programmers & enginires, please, make it less obvious. 
   Probably you should have a tee as Dane say. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 27, 2019, 08:50:38 PM
MrPerfect; I have never asked you to ever prove your acclaimed success at the roulette tables. I took it for granted that you knew your subject and contributed to teach those few interested in your way of playing roulette. Anyone doubting your many posts and claims of you knowing what you do at any given time would simply ask you to show a receipt of a withdrawal from any casino Land based or online. You haven´t so far and I suspect you never will. It is ok with me. I have seen your VB posts and know the extent of your knowledge and have encountered this art many times in Land based Casinos to know hw well it works for those who have mastered it.

You question my knowledge in a game I have practiced and studied for nearly twenty five years now. That is in order. You are a volatile person and from the past posts it seems you have had a bad streak considering your outbursts in all directions.

I have presently 20 members in my community, all of them highly educated in various areas of everything from academia to industry. They have all used my platforms , based on excel for a very simple reason, the platforms contain hundreds of thousands of algorithms in a specific architecture that is way too complex to be converted into a program in one or several of the current computer languages. These people would not have been members for over 4 years now if they had been losing money or the platforms wouldn´t have worked.

Sure, some have come and gone because they didn´t measure up to the discipline and effort it takes to learn using my way of playing the wheel with these sector predicting platforms, but you can be sure I have years of evidence of their successes and data gathering from thousands of sessions against all major online Casinos.

You are of course free to sink to the childish level of some well known friedenstörhrers here, but I will still treat you with the initial respect I did when I first set foot on this forum some years ago.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 27, 2019, 09:49:31 PM
Thomas , when l was playing online,  ones l posted screenshot of an account with deposits, withdrawals. .. l didn't really was showing off, you know, it was just to prove my point that many times multiplication of session bankroll is possible . On this very forum. I'm still ashamed of this . It killed play opportunity for me and few others ( who l do not know) who was playing that wheel. I will never repeat such a thing unless l do not care about that wheel/ account anymore.
   Now.. there are things that make me put a foot behind. I just asked you some excels to see that maybe it could give me some idea for my project. Think about it... lm excel developer myself and l never shared work of other people without their consent... hate people who do. Even so you just excuse yourself without showing me nothing. Maybe your platforms are good , who knows? I would be fine if you told me that you do not share, that's fine for me as well... but excuse l got instead was very weak , on my humble opinion. 
   I have nothing egainst you personally,  in fact l try belive you, you just do not help.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: ahlidap on March 27, 2019, 10:43:27 PM
Hi,

Thomas gave me the opportunity of joining his community..
And I'm very thankful for that!

The word "community" is very strong, and it means exactly that!
No one ask proofs of anything, because there's no need for that!

No show offs, but a lot of help if someone need it, let it be to understand a new indicator, or simply to replay some specific set of spins with a different point of view...

The whole concept is... totally different from the reality presented here.
At same time Its quite interesting, challenging and effective!

Hard work is needed, practice, practice, do some mistakes, show them to the community and wait for a few tips.
A community where everyone grabs the rope and pull together in the same direction, and this makes a lot of difference.
Dedication & respect are heavily present there  :)
And with a bonus, great platforms that provide very good data for us, allowing an awesome approach to the wheel.

Regards
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 27, 2019, 11:16:24 PM
Ahlidap

Respect    and help each other I applaud but I thought that Thomas's method was already a profitable one . So why the need  to  help each other ? Help each other  to do what ?   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 28, 2019, 07:41:43 AM
Hundreds of thousands algorithms shouldn't be easy to learn. ... I would ask for help as well.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: ahlidap on March 28, 2019, 09:16:07 AM
.. but I thought that Thomas's method was already a profitable one . So why the need  to  help each other ? Help each other  to do what ?

Why help? To do what?

Does a Champion of Moto GP, F1, WRC, .... do not require help of his team just because he is a champion?
Hell no!

Help in correcting other people mistakes and / or approaches on how to interpret data.
Help in finding bugs on the platforms.
Help in teaching the beginners..
Help in finding different approaches that might result in improvements on the platforms, or on players education and new ways of making decisions..
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 28, 2019, 09:38:26 AM
Even so you just excuse yourself without showing me nothing. Maybe your platforms are good , who knows? I would be fine if you told me that you do not share, that's fine for me as well... but excuse l got instead was very weak , on my humble opinion. 
   I have nothing egainst you personally,  in fact l try belive you, you just do not help.

MrPerfect, I simply do not share VRTech platforms with those outside the VRTech community. Sure, I sometimes share some information, videos,  images of the platforms, and even sometimes image caps from the ongoing research and discussion in the community, but never crucial VR Technology. I once did that with a member of this forum who used it not in accordance with its specific protocols but more in tune with his own past betting habits. Suffice to say it was like giving a new 800 horse power Ferrari to a 18yo who recently managed to take his driving license, and had only driven nothing more than a slow old Volvo. He crashed and burned. I ll never do that mistake again.

Now, because you (and certain other members of this forum), have always had my respect as serious roulette players and system developers, I am willing to post a new topic outside this thread where I will describe our VRTech in a close up so you at least get some idea what it is all about and perhaps get some inspiration for your own future excel developments. If not in content, at least in design.

If I do, depending on your interest, I can call the new thread "What is VRTech, and how does it benefit a roulette player?" Any questions you might have I will answer as long as they do not infringe on specific sensitive technology around the VR architecture that lately has much been modelled around the AMD Ryzen multi-core technology in processing and data distribution, where many cores do different tasks in a multi-threading way in order to produce a unifying result on your display. (or to a VRTech test pilot, on his HUD - Head Up Display)

If such a new topic or thread is of interest for you just confirm it in this thread and I will post it soon, otherwise just say no and I save myself some time, ok?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 28, 2019, 11:50:12 AM

Why help? To do what?

Does a Champion of Moto GP, F1, WRC, .... do not require help of his team just because he is a champion?
Hell no!

Help in correcting other people mistakes and / or approaches on how to interpret data.
Help in finding bugs on the platforms.
Help in teaching the beginners..
Help in finding different approaches that might result in improvements on the platforms, or on players education and new ways of making decisions..
Ahlidap

I thought Thomas's VR Technology was already profitable. If so why does it need refining- eliminating bugs  etc . ? I thought Thomas was showing his pupils his finished product . Apparently not. Does he charge you- undertandably -  for using his technology ? 

Those of us who have found a profitable method don't need"  a team "  ;D
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 28, 2019, 12:14:49 PM
When Ferrari F12, an almost perfect sports car, was introduced in 2014 it made its company a profit increase , one year later,  of almost 8%. And yet, always looking to create better masterpieces, Ferrari introduced the F12tdf, a super version of the earlier model.

Why did they do that? Perhaps looking to push the envelope of perfection?

When Intel introduced the Intel I9 9900 series processor, when the earlier Intel I7 was such a super processor and incredibly profitable for the company, why did they do that?


I could go on, but even you, my dear Scepticus, should be able to get the message.

I am a developer by heart and love to develop technology in a certain area (professionally).  The game of roulette is for me a dear hobby where I love to develop sector predicting platforms based on the unique concept of VRTechnology.

To have access to such a crack team that I do these days, helps me make the VR platforms better and more efficient, despite the extreme efficiency of the earlier models. This hobby is not just a profitable luxury and joy for me, but also for the team of these remarkable individuals.

Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 28, 2019, 12:44:20 PM
thomas
There is a limit to " Perfection".  What newcomers to this forum are looking for is a ANY method that produces a profit. I only know that mine does and was prepared to show that in public and not mere words in a forum.
Most members here agree wuth your approach . Use past results to indicate future results. I don;t . I use simple maths to indicate future reults. Maths is replicable butmany ideas in this forum are  not . They depend on the  individual's ability .
Don't misunderstand me.  I am not trying to change your method - or anyone else's method. We  each have our own approach  . My " critique " is to help newcomers to beware of  claims that winning is " Easy" . It is not.
Incidentally, you have not answered my question " Do you charge students for use of your technology ? You are to be congratulated on your work on your project but  I profit without all thehassle and my approach has had some verification.
Using the much derided 9 Block  ;D  .   
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 28, 2019, 12:53:04 PM
Scep, all members/test pilots (they are not my students) have free unlimited access to all my material which is available at all times in the #download channel. All test pilots are free to use the technology for either leisure or RM Play (Real Money) at any given Casino.

If I were to charge a single cent on what I offer and claim to work, I would be a simple scammer. Years of work and years of membership has shown the VRTech pilots that what they have is as real as the money they earn using it, not to mention the fun of sharing information and experiences in our community.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: ahlidap on March 28, 2019, 01:48:15 PM
Oh no...
Is that hard to understand the meaning of such simple sentences?
Quote
I thought Thomas's VR Technology was already profitable. If so why does it need refining- eliminating bugs,...

You seem to don't understand what evolving or improving means...
But Thomas gave good examples.. otherwise, we should still be using horses as main power source and thinking what is that "smoke" on boiling water (steam)..

I confirm, nothing is charged!
I might have used the word "teaching" but yes, I'm do not see myself as a stuuuudent.. teaching means transmit knowledge.. if you teach a kid how to cross a road, he is not your student.
I though that I've used simple words to express myself.

As for teaching, if a newcomer appear, I think I'm already capable of "teaching" (transmit some knowledge) him something. So, no one is "teacher"..

We are always learning in this life...

And by the way..
Winning is easy??? Who said that? lol...
Thomas says many times the exact opposite...
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: scepticus on March 28, 2019, 04:15:55 PM
Well.  My question has been answered . Thomas's students don't pay . Well done Thomas  ! for giving your  hard won technology fro free.   I think you mentioned " students" and Mr Perfect has " students " who pay him. I merely wondered if your students paid you .  I don't object to people charging for imparting their  knowledge - provided they get something DIFFERENT and worthwhile for their money .
Ahlidap
Some in the forum have said that winning is Easy .I think they mislead newbies and that is clearly wrong .
 .
I have already given my view on the Heading . I have Grown  and have stopped Evolving because I have a profitable method. So it is not me that does not know the meaning of the Heading .
The question you and my critics have  to answer is " Why should I try to " Evolve " further when I have  a profitable system "?  Where is the guarantee that I shall find a better system ?
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 28, 2019, 04:23:11 PM
Thomas , my interest to your platform is more excel related. I bother to optimise how software works hardwarewise as well, so your explanations about this part in particular are interesting as well. It's always interesting how a programmer achieve solutions to common problems.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 28, 2019, 04:24:44 PM


Scep, I like the fact that your method allows you to reach a reasonable profit with a good protection of your BR. If this can be managed at any given game then you indeed should be considered a good player/developer/creator.

I suggest you deny yourself wasting energy on those who claim what you have to be insufficient. At least for themselves. I can assure you that many of them have nothing real to show for but empty claims and zero work behind the aforementioned.

There are good people here like you, Ignatius (who relentlessly strives to perfect his ideas of the ultimate system for himself), MrPerfect who generously shares his long time acquired Visual Ballistic knowledge and don´t take BS talk lightly, and a few more. These people are in a way the present backbone of this forum because they make the passive members who just lurk and read, to return again and again hoping to catch something of value.

I for one don´t have much time these days to come visit here as my own community takes a lot of my free time and my consulting job the rest.

Enjoy the days you can visit your local Casino and make those good bucks you need for the month or a nice weekend.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 28, 2019, 04:27:59 PM
Ok, MrPerfect, later this week when I find the time, I will put up a new topic about VRTech and lay out the basics of what it is, examples of the GUI a test pilot use and how it looks under "the hood" and the basic process to enable a real time sector prediction based on VRTech.

I will upload a certain amount of image caps too, to illustrate what is presented.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on March 29, 2019, 05:25:07 AM
Ahlidap, I'm happy that you found common ground with Thomas where you are able to put your skills to good use. I hope it works out well for you.

Thomas, it appears that Kav has no issue with your ethics so I'll close that issue but that doesn't mean I agree with how you go about things.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MrPerfect. on March 29, 2019, 07:45:21 AM
Thomas,  as l told you before,  l have a very limited interest of what it is and what it does. Pictures of it can be somehow interesting, l already sou few..  it's many colors together .
    What can represent any value for me is technicalities .
    I can give you an example of what l consider such technicalities in my programs.  All pivot tables are auto expandable on demand , their length ( how many sells) is a named range . All named ranges are flexible due to this effect. It permitted to economise volume ( Mb) of the program while in storage.  Other example is that most of the logic is presented in the structure of the logic engines and not in its formulas.  I really prefer to use extra columns then extra formulas, wich is beneficial to economise RAM and processesor load.
   If l  post pictures or basic explanation of what it does, you and others would understand nothing useful,  especially from programming side of the phenomenon. 
   So..  allow me ,please, to see what l want or just keep it to yourself. 
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: thomasleor on March 29, 2019, 08:15:33 AM
MrPerfect.  I understand. Well then I skip the post and arrange something more useful for you, personally. I´ll PM you for more info.
Title: Re: Growing/Evolving as a Roulette Player.
Post by: MickyP on May 19, 2019, 11:26:09 AM
Geez, I'm late to this topic. Most (not all) here, play roulette (B&M) as a hobby/part time, and message boards are their MAIN influence into the game. Myself, its the opposite. The message boards are nothing more than a hobby. Dont need them, they are pretty useless to me. Years ago? Different story.
Most here dont want to learn. Meaning what Ken? They have a PARTICULAR style they play and "their way" is the correct way. They have no interest opening their ears and CERTAIN other players are growing tired of this and posting less,,,,,,,myself, Mike, Turbo, Gizmo etc. etc. etc. Point being, I think our attitudes as of late, f**k it, just let you guys implode on yourselves. (lol). I lose nothing in my wallet watching you guys chase the second column with mild progression but only after the magical TRIGGER appears.

You guys (not all) are going in a never ending circle. It took some of you five years to DROP down from the ECs to column bets. Five years is waaaaay too long people. That should of taken six months (max) and then after that, dropping more and more numbers. A lot of you are following (like sheep) the wrong people here and they are leading you to the slaughter. Two very very very important points >>>> A) Your method must be PLAYABLE under all B&M real life casino situations. B) If you cant make a living from your method, then you have trash.

This thread is full of valuable information and I just had to highlight Ken's post because he states two points at the end of his post that should be the level that every player should strive for.