Roulette Forum

Roulette Forum => Other topics (not related to casino or roulette) => Topic started by: Dane on January 06, 2019, 03:14:51 PM

Title: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on January 06, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
Original title: "Beim Bau der chinesischen Mauer".
Litteraly "During the construction of The Great Wall of China".
While written in 1917 it was not published until 1930 seven years after his death.
Contained within the stort is a parable that was separately published as "A message from the Emperor" ("Eine kaiserliche Botschaft") in 1919 in the collection ein Landartzt (A country Doctor).
Some subthemes of the story include why the Wall was build pieacemeal (in small sections in many different places), the relationship of the Chinese with the past and the present, and the Emperor´s imperceptible presence.
I heard it on the radio in my youth. One of these subthemes impressed me. Much later Marco Polo wrote THE INVISIBLE CITIES. This novel explores imagination and the imaginable through the descriptions of cities by an explorer, Marco Polo, and his conversations with Kublai Khan.

Calvino´s tone and style is, to say the least, miles from Franz Kafka. One fantastic theory in Kafka´s short story , however, was just as wild as many of the invisible cities: Maybe the Wall was thought to be just the beginning of the building of a PYRAMID?

Dictators and walls come and go.

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on January 06, 2019, 03:25:54 PM
Yes, I realize where this was going. Listen, I am for *ANY* solution to keeping out illegals from my country. It does not have to be a wall per say BUT show me something better. The MOST effective idea of keeping ILLEGALS out of MY country gets my vote AND my appreciation. and forget about the check points. I'm asking in terms of open land (or river). How to keep them OUT?
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: thomasleor on January 06, 2019, 04:05:20 PM


When it comes to Trump´s less wiser choices of building a wall, the thing is, that once the big earthquake of >9 on the Richter scale  comes to California (and it will considering the USGS data shows on a vastly increased quake activity the past year),or, and this is the real scary possibility, the Yellowstone super volcano goes, then all in the south west will find themselves SHUT IN, once they panic and head for the south border. The obstacle will not only be the wall itself (if ever built), but the political resistance from the Mexicans now turning the wall on the Americans as a reason to say NO.

Is this a comical situation that perhaps shows the irony of short sighted political decisions that fight humantarian reality? Perhaps it is, perhaps it is not. In any case, the outcome, whatever the choice, becomes a tragedy for either part once the wall is built.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on January 06, 2019, 04:09:05 PM
and all I'm saying, some one show me a better proven way of keeping people out and I will be on board 100%.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on January 06, 2019, 06:37:30 PM
The wall is not to keep Mexicans out who cross the boarder daily (legally). It is to assist boarder control in keeping out illegal immigrants. There are currently an estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in the USA.
The United States allocates billions of dollars annually towards foreign aid.
The wall will be a benefit to Mexico as well because without it (the wall) going through Mexico is the easiest root into the US.
Mexico is a big trading partner of the US and I'm sure they also see the benefits that the wall will provide.

President Trump has done well for the US and there is concern about security in the country. He is doing everything in his power to keep Americans safe in their own country.
They say sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind and this I find true. Open boarders and sanctuary cities have no place in modern society.
The one rule every person should follow is to respect the rules/laws of the territory you are in. The US says "Do not enter the United States illegally but you are welcome through legal channels" and no person is discriminated upon based on skin colour, religion etc.  What is so difficult about respecting laws?
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: thomasleor on January 06, 2019, 07:06:21 PM
The wall is not to keep Mexicans out who cross the boarder daily (legally). It is to assist boarder control in keeping out illegal immigrants. There are currently an estimated 20 million illegal immigrants in the USA.
The United States allocates billions of dollars annually towards foreign aid.
The wall will be a benefit to Mexico as well because without it (the wall) going through Mexico is the easiest root into the US.
Mexico is a big trading partner of the US and I'm sure they also see the benefits that the wall will provide.

President Trump has done well for the US and there is concern about security in the country. He is doing everything in his power to keep Americans safe in their own country.
They say sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind and this I find true. Open boarders and sanctuary cities have no place in modern society.
The one rule every person should follow is to respect the rules/laws of the territory you are in. The US says "Do not enter the United States illegally but you are welcome through legal channels" and no person is discriminated upon based on skin colour, religion etc.  What is so difficult about respecting laws?

Interesting view which shows that you understood zero of what I suggested Ken to ponder.

Btw. You forgot to end your comment with "Zieg Heil", or the equivalent salute in your dear old Afrikaner Weerstandsbeweging (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afrikaner_Weerstandsbeweging).
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on January 06, 2019, 07:46:52 PM
Thomasleor, I know what you suggested to Ken; natural disasters that may force the American people south.
I did touch on this by stating that both Mexico and the United States will benefit from a completed wall. You obviously believe like Nancy that the wall is immoral. She also supports abortion and that's a contentious subject to say the least. The wall is not to punish or restrict Mexicans from entering the US legally.
Why don't you comment on people who disrespect laws? Should there be no consequences for breaking immigration laws by entering a country illegally?

You really do have me all wrong but I won't bother with your stupid remarks about me being a Nazi or whatever.
Get out of your sci-fi seat and enjoy the real world.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on January 06, 2019, 08:18:23 PM
Thomasleor you seem to know an awful lot about South Africa that most people are not aware of.
Are you an ex-South African, maybe a conscientious objector who spent national service time in military jail and was dishonorably discharged giving you zero opportunity to get employed by the majority of companies at that time? You must hate South Africans for a reason and you do seem very bitter almost to the point of still wanting revenge.

If this is the case and you feel you missed an opportunity in your youth and are now too old to play real Rambo then I understand why you have this military mentality with your game. I really have no issues with you but please just be honest with yourself. It will set you free.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: thomasleor on January 06, 2019, 08:33:46 PM
Thomasleor you seem to know an awful lot about South Africa that most people are not aware of.
Are you an ex-South African, maybe a conscientious objector who spent national service time in military jail and was dishonorably discharged giving you zero opportunity to get employed by the majority of companies at that time? You must hate South Africans for a reason and you do seem very bitter almost to the point of still wanting revenge.

If this is the case and you feel you missed an opportunity in your youth and are now too old to play real Rambo then I understand why you have this military mentality with your game. I really have no issues with you but please just be honest with yourself. It will set you free.

Hahaha...nice one.

Sorry, but I am born and raised in Sweden. Worked internationally, US, Japan, China and a few countries in Africa -  for a number of Wallenberg owned high tech companies, of which one was in Johannesburg in the 80s.

Saw enough of your violent nazi-brotherhood to recognize your alt right views on human life.

Politically I am Conservative Lite, in the military I served in the air force with honors, and of course, sorry I have been enough in the States to not be a Pelosi fan, but neither am I a fan of an idiot who doesn´t even know the  United States Constitution (which every American President knew from Nixon to Washington)  much less the origin of all civil rights.

The imbecile can barely express himself, or finish a sentence without expressing a large amount of idiosyncrasies that makes a child in elementary school blush with pride of being smarter.

And yes I love my 1200 euro computer chair, but then you must suffer from sitting on the floor typing on that keyboard. Swaksinnige.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on January 06, 2019, 08:47:09 PM
For both parties, always remember,,,,,,there are TWO main issues. SOCIAL issues & ECONOMIC issues and the two do not always pair up properly. Example being >> I know quite a few liberals that attend the Christian church every Sunday and thats awesome. However, the church does teach, no abortion and we already KNOW where most (not all) of the left sit on this subject. So, would anyone here find that to be inconsistent going to Sunday mass?

Ken
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on January 06, 2019, 09:45:14 PM
Thomasleor, You have a better chair than I do and I say maybe you need a better chair, after all that is where you spend most of life.

You branded me because I support President Trump. I have not expressed Nazi like comments on this forum nor have I expressed any type of white supremacy comments on the forum. You think all South Africans are the same. Sad.
You are free to insult the President of the United States and I am free to insult you but I will get no pleasure from it. However, I have to say that you do have some serious reality issues to deal with and if you do not seek help then at least help yourself by exercising now and then. Go for a walk and have conversations with people, listen to real voices...

Ken, it is Gods word not to willfully abort so you should honour his word. Praising him but not respecting his word is inconsistent. 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 03, 2019, 12:05:14 PM
"It´s easy to see without looking to far that not much is really sacred".
Recently a more mature, a more sane and politically experienced person, Nancy Pelosi, has handled Mr. Trump as he ought to be handled. This might not improve him or his followers, but....
"We don´t want no thought control".
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: thomasleor on February 03, 2019, 12:18:22 PM
You mean something like this?

(https://i.ibb.co/Zms3sNZ/2019-02-03-13-17-13.jpg)
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: DrTalos on February 03, 2019, 01:56:42 PM
There are a lot of silliness in this threat, IMO.
  I remind you that Slavery was legal, and an acceptable way to move to US (in chain and through ships). And was illegal free them.
  Was also legal deport and kill humans during Hitler's reign, and was illegal trying to save them (they kill rightfully you on the spot).
  In South Africa, was legal for a small minority of white have complete access to resources while blacks where second (third? Fourth?) class citizens...
  Please don't use legal in your argument.
 
A human being cannot be illegal. An action is illegal. So someone pushing at a border, seking asylum, is not illegal. Can be undocumented, like the vast majority of "illegal" resident in US (for the most part people overstaying their visa), and for them you don't need a wall, or a border security, but better laws, and cheaper immigration process.
  I can't believe that intelligent people can accept any idiotic words from this repellent President. It is a disgrace that he is in the position, but is even more disgraceful that people nowadays have lost so much of moral values, and judgment, to vote or approve anything he does and say.

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Rinad on February 03, 2019, 03:28:49 PM


   yes Mr Talos I could not agree more. and when you use the word 'intelligent people" there needs to be a whole new definition of the word intelligent. 
we can fly to the moon but we dont know how to be happy, go figure.
built a great wall but cant be kind to others.
can make billions of dollars but have not anderstood that true blessings comes from the power of giving and not just taking, go figure.
one thing for sure the cycle of our 80 years living cycle has to end for everyone and no one can escape that. only fools like this president and others like "Caius Caligula" believed some how that they would still enjoy their posessions in their next lives as Gods themselves. they would without thinking easily pick the most "shiny gold like looking Holy grail cup" as oposed to the Cup made from the hands of a Carpenter.

Rinad
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on February 03, 2019, 03:40:26 PM
There are a lot of silliness in this threat, IMO.
  I remind you that Slavery was legal, and an acceptable way to move to US (in chain and through ships). And was illegal free them.
  Was also legal deport and kill humans during Hitler's reign, and was illegal trying to save them (they kill rightfully you on the spot).
  In South Africa, was legal for a small minority of white have complete access to resources while blacks where second (third? Fourth?) class citizens...
  Please don't use legal in your argument.
 
A human being cannot be illegal. An action is illegal. So someone pushing at a border, seking asylum, is not illegal. Can be undocumented, like the vast majority of "illegal" resident in US (for the most part people overstaying their visa), and for them you don't need a wall, or a border security, but better laws, and cheaper immigration process.
  I can't believe that intelligent people can accept any idiotic words from this repellent President. It is a disgrace that he is in the position, but is even more disgraceful that people nowadays have lost so much of moral values, and judgment, to vote or approve anything he does and say.


ROFL, call it what you will. You are PLAYING with words. Ok, the person here (USA) is undocumented, do you at least agree they have NO RIGHT to be here?

Ken
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: DrTalos on February 03, 2019, 04:48:47 PM
Depends on situation.
  If someone is legally protected, and then a moron change the law, shouldn't we consider them in a different situation then someone smuggling through the Rio Grande? (Every hints to DREAMERS is purely coincidental).
  I am not playing with words, I am showing the lack of deep thinking and the abundance of prejudices in some minds. Every categorization seems to me an offense on judgment. Undocumented means criminal? Not at all. Send lawyers to the borders, not soldier. Give opportunities, not tags. This country is great because of immigration, not despite of it.
  You, like me, are a direct descendant of an immigrant, if not immigrant yourself. Keep the rethoric to politics, who gains their living saying bulls***s, and keep human decency and moral values close to us. We will need them.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 03, 2019, 06:34:25 PM
"...and keep human decency and moral values close to us. We will need them." quote from DrTalos from the post above.

I am glad you mentioned "Moral Values" as important to humanity. I am pro-life and the degeneration of moral values currently being tabled by the democrats is appalling and totally disgusting. Governor Northam, a medical doctor has put forward a bill that will allow for abortion in the third trimester, in fact he clearly mentioned in a news conference that an infant just born will be kept comfortable and resuscitated on the mothers request; the medical staff and the mother would then discuss the fate of the infant. This is so wrong in every way.

There was no major outcry about this except from Fox News. BUT the KKK and Black Face represented in a photo taken some 30 years ago involving the good Doctor/Governor Northam has created a rather big racial storm.

As far as I am concerned this race, racist, racial issue has been far overplayed for some time now and is BS. Morgan Freeman gave an absolutely brilliant answer when asked about Black History month. I truly admire the man not only for his views on life but also for his stunning work as an actor.

President Trump is pro-life, he is pro-security for the American people. He is pro-keeping to his word. He is not without fault but he has delivered to the American people.
The fact that people find fulfillment in insulting the man on a public forum is really sad. Maybe you who insult the President should think about how life would have been under Hillary Clinton. Possibly a Third World Sh*thole based on the featherheads in the Dem Party.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 03, 2019, 09:55:02 PM
https://youtu.be/N0p_pQ7PTYU

Now this is a step in the right direction.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: DrTalos on February 04, 2019, 01:33:35 AM
Your "Champion" insulted almost 600 people in three years (talking just about the written insults, ones during rallies are not counted). And he insulted the sitting president Obama of that time so many times that is hard to count. But yes it is sad that I do it in a forum...
  Your judgment is totally wrong. He only cares about his money and the attention he can get. He deregulated all enviromental protection in this country. Companies are free to pollute and destroy like never before. Please take your head out of your ...
  He is destroing the future for our children and grandchildren. He has no long term plan because is enable to think. Every member of his team says the same. He put his family members and friends in top position. He is corrupted to the bone. He is a liar and a con man.

Many despicable men in history had huge followers, and I always wondered how someone could have given support to Hitler, Mussolini and such. They talked about borders security, about jews stealing money and depriving honest german of their rightful well being, and they shook the ghost of nationalism to get ignorant and short minded people on their side.
  Now I know. Now I see how people that cannot pay regularly their bill support a billionaire who gives tax cuts to The wealthiest people in the country, cutting benefits for elderly, sick or disadvantaged men and women.
  Pro life is a topic, I agree. This doesn't means we need to have this presidency supported. Vice president says he speaks with angels, while we have no budget for education, or to have better infrastructures. Come on man, be back in this world. Use your head. Is really Trump a correct answer? Half of his cabinet is indicted, the rest will come later.
  His personal lawyer for years is one step out from jail. Fbi director has been fired, AG has been fired. No bells ringing?
  Michael, it is okay if you say that some instances are correct (security, abortion) but if this cost us the planet, maybe it is just too much, don't you think? Reality check: we do not have a second Earth.
 
Your very stable genius in the office is not stable, and sure not a genius.
  One last thing about race. Here, in US, 80% of people in jail are black or hispanic. Are worst than white or do they have les protection? If a black kid steal an apple goes to jail because he cannot afford 200 $ for bailing himself out. A white dude can have a loan from the bank of 50.000$ with the suspect of murdering someone. True story.
  With this, I am out.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on February 04, 2019, 02:11:38 AM
Depends on situation.
  If someone is legally protected, and then a moron change the law, shouldn't we consider them in a different situation then someone smuggling through the Rio Grande? (Every hints to DREAMERS is purely coincidental).
  I am not playing with words, I am showing the lack of deep thinking and the abundance of prejudices in some minds. Every categorization seems to me an offense on judgment. Undocumented means criminal? Not at all. Send lawyers to the borders, not soldier. Give opportunities, not tags. This country is great because of immigration, not despite of it.
  You, like me, are a direct descendant of an immigrant, if not immigrant yourself. Keep the rethoric to politics, who gains their living saying bulls***s, and keep human decency and moral values close to us. We will need them.

Listen, I see which side of the isle you are on. I figured as much, you not liking the ILLEGAL tag. If you came into this country illegally, you are an ILLEGAL, sorry. If you over stayed your work/student visa, you are NOW here ILLEGALLY. Did you know Obama (the messiah) changed the definition from ILLEGAL to.... undocumented worker? Big surprise, hey? 

Sorry man, America is closed (or should be). I'm not for selecting a small % for entry, I'm for shutting the doors on ANYONE. So I can be a mean guy? Nope. The country is already trillions in debt and as soon as THEY are allowed in, the tax payers are on the hook. In many cases, for DECADES per each family. This is the country people go to in order to kick back and collect TAX PAYER goodies. Its bulls**t and needs to stop.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Rinad on February 04, 2019, 02:53:32 AM


   Dr Talos you could not of explained it better so I have to said that you see truth and not stuck in a pigeon hole and that is everything!!!
Micky Trump is not for this or that  ,please is'nt obvious ?  come on guys , dont you know see Trump is for trump and trump only ???   he is sold out to the highest better and has no other agenda but making him great.
 like Talos mentioned he can care less about lies, his Trumpetiers followers, and the planet.  took all the restrictions Obama had passed.
think of it , he was a democrat and run as a republican only because they would give him the support he needed.
he would of run as anything as long as it would help him win.  he actually dont care about a wall or anything that he wants to do for as long as it gives him the support to run for a second term. 
if, for the sake of anderstanding his beliefs he would know that changing his entire position on absolutely everything would give him a second term he would actually change all of his positions in a heart beat because Trump is for Trump and dont give a flip about anyone else or making america great again.
sorry guys I hate to rain on your parade or to pop your red balloon but truth is reality.
I know first hand the guy has riped off so many people in the course of his life that nothing will change my mind about his immoral demanted mind set. 
the funny thing is;  if he would of riped you off you would hate him to, and that my friends is also a fact.
would'nt you ????
Rinad
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on February 04, 2019, 02:56:32 AM
Does anyone on the left ever make decisions based on debt/cash flow vs. feelings these days?
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: DrTalos on February 04, 2019, 03:43:36 AM
Sorry, wrong again. I am not liberal, and I am not democat, as I am not repubblican, or else. Those silly opinions guided by partnership and political adherence do not belongs to me.
  I use my mind, all the time. Sometimes I agree with "right" positions, sometimes with "left" positions. This is incidental, I grant you. I am not on board with legalize weed, and I would love to see regulations on weapons. I think that rich people must pay more taxes, and I think that no protection should be granted for lazy parasites who uses social benefits to lay on the couch all day long.
  Most of all, I think we need to have a better knowledge of issue we need to fight. Air pollution, climate change, bio diversity, non renewable energies, clean water, over population, deforestation, waste disposal are way more important than money, because at the end of the day we cannot eat dollar bills.
  Feelings? You and all Trump supporters seems unable to stay on topic when faced. You use your feelings not your reasoning. This wonderful country has shift from capitalistic democracy to plutocracy, and you all smarty pants can't see it.
  Problems are immigrants? You can't be serious. We have 35000 people killed by guns every year, in this country. Less than 3% from immigrants, and the astoninshing 0.2% of them from undocumented immigrants. All mass shootings are from deranged white Americans. Not a word on that?
  And what about feelings. Your President is the one acting on feelings all the time. Why are you using double standards? Why what he can do cannot be done by anything else? Imagine if Obama did one of the despicable thigs Trump did? Trump attacked Obama for golfing (shame on Obama). Trump attacked Obama for the shutdown (shame on Obama) Trump attacked Obama for federal deficit (shame on Obama). Now trump rewrote all those record and nobody says a thing.
  I can believe I have to explain all of this to grown up educated people.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 04, 2019, 04:05:05 AM
Your "Champion" insulted almost 600 people in three years (talking just about the written insults, ones during rallies are not counted). And he insulted the sitting president Obama of that time so many times that is hard to count. But yes it is sad that I do it in a forum...
  Your judgment is totally wrong. He only cares about his money and the attention he can get. He deregulated all enviromental protection in this country. Companies are free to pollute and destroy like never before. Please take your head out of your ...
  He is destroing the future for our children and grandchildren. He has no long term plan because is enable to think. Every member of his team says the same. He put his family members and friends in top position. He is corrupted to the bone. He is a liar and a con man.

Many despicable men in history had huge followers, and I always wondered how someone could have given support to Hitler, Mussolini and such. They talked about borders security, about jews stealing money and depriving honest german of their rightful well being, and they shook the ghost of nationalism to get ignorant and short minded people on their side.
  Now I know. Now I see how people that cannot pay regularly their bill support a billionaire who gives tax cuts to The wealthiest people in the country, cutting benefits for elderly, sick or disadvantaged men and women.
  Pro life is a topic, I agree. This doesn't means we need to have this presidency supported. Vice president says he speaks with angels, while we have no budget for education, or to have better infrastructures. Come on man, be back in this world. Use your head. Is really Trump a correct answer? Half of his cabinet is indicted, the rest will come later.
  His personal lawyer for years is one step out from jail. Fbi director has been fired, AG has been fired. No bells ringing?
  Michael, it is okay if you say that some instances are correct (security, abortion) but if this cost us the planet, maybe it is just too much, don't you think? Reality check: we do not have a second Earth.
 
Your very stable genius in the office is not stable, and sure not a genius.
  One last thing about race. Here, in US, 80% of people in jail are black or hispanic. Are worst than white or do they have les protection? If a black kid steal an apple goes to jail because he cannot afford 200 $ for bailing himself out. A white dude can have a loan from the bank of 50.000$ with the suspect of murdering someone. True story.
  With this, I am out.

Wow DrTalos, you certainly did put a lot into your post. I'll respond without resorting to insults or demeaning statements to get my points across. Regardless of your opinion of me at this time I still maintain my respect for you and therefore will not pass comment on where your head currently is. I will leave that as a riddle for the masses to solve. The clues are in your posts.

I did state that President Trump is not without fault as he is but a man. There are many who cast stones as if they do not have sins. The President was elected by the people based on his campaign promises. Elected in the same manner as all the presidents before him but in his case the dems cried foul. He did promise to jail Hillary and so far he hasn't fulfilled that promise. Bengazi is/was a real life situation where the US Ambassador lost his life and the emails that were intentionally destroyed is cause for alarm.Crooked Hillary still walks free.
Look at the numbers with the American economy; a promise made, a promise kept. Please watch the documentary I posted on global warming. It is a topic worthy of discussion. Global warming is a misleading narrative that rallies support from the masses.
As far as race is concerned regarding offenders behind bars it can be traced to culture and not to White supremacy or privilege. as is presumed. Also a topic worthy of discussion.

I have lived a very different life to many of you and I have seen life from many different points of view. I am firm in my stance and this is not due to indoctrination and peer pressure of any sort.

I feel Ken has very valid points about illegal immigrants. He asks questions that go unanswered because the answers will reveal the truth. In my truth I see President Trump is concerned about the welfare of ALL American CITIZENS.
.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on February 04, 2019, 04:10:55 AM
Does anyone on the left ever make decisions based on debt/cash flow vs. feelings these days?

I dont care who claims to be or not be a liberal BUT its not tough to spot who you are. You can try and HIDE all you want. I am interested in an answer to my question/point?
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on February 04, 2019, 04:20:25 AM
For those not very familiar with the US, unfortunately, everything these days is offensive to certain groups. Every person has some sort of rallying cry, a mission of sorts. I have never seen it this bad in my life and I am 50. The other day I held the door open for a lady (at a restaurant) and she went off on me big time!!
Calling me mister man and stick my chivalry up my a**. She is a strong independent woman 
 who can open her own door etc. There is a cause behind everything these days, its sickening. The term "assault" has changed over the past few years as well. These days, everything is assault (lol). Using foul names is now considered assault (sighs).  ::)
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 04, 2019, 06:31:11 AM
The latest is that Mary Poppins is racist because she blackened her face with soot in the dance with the chimney sweeps.
Hahaha.... can't beat that! But maybe the crazy bunch decide how dark the pale skin can tan before it is labelled racist or maybe how tight a perm can be without being racist.
What about the hot hair iron or the chicken neck and finger pointing in your face?

It seems that Whites are not allowed to borrow from Black peoples culture but yet Black people embrace western culture and aspire to it.

I say like Morgan Freeman stated, we should stop talking about it and learn to get along. There are so many good people who see past the pettiness of race, culture and religion and are not hell bent on hating anyone with a different opinion.

The KKK Black face picture of Gov Northam should be seen in the correct context. It was a fancy dress event and the costumes reflect a part of American history. Should expressing this history be reserved for Black people only? How about we call Michael Jackson a racist because he straightened his hair, bleached his skin and gave himself a pointy nose. I know, it sounds stupid and that's because it is stupid.

South Africa is no different to the USA. This country is more racist and divided today than it has ever been. Free speech is pretty much a thing of the past.

I will probably get blasted for my right wing white supremacist Nazi outlook on life even though I do not relate to it at all. It's just because I question things and want to know why people are so messed up morally these days.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Badger on February 04, 2019, 12:17:58 PM
Hi Micky

I have come to the conclusion that the Dems and the Republicans are playing good cop, bad cop to divide the Americans even more.

Whatever the outcome, I feel that the man in the street will be the one that gets shafted.
I think that the proper term is Hegelian principle.

It consists of 3 steps. 1) Create a problem or conflict
                                2) Publicise the problem and create opposition to it
                                3) Offer a solution
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 06, 2019, 08:33:51 AM
Hi Badger
Divide and conquer?

I am not able to evaluate Hegel, and Kant gives me a headache. Kant´s moral philosophy, however, might not be too difficult to understand. His "imperative" might be in tune with sound morals.
If you say anything or do anything to others, consider this: Would do or say something similar to your Grandma?
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 22, 2019, 09:28:55 AM
 The new film GREEN BOOK takes us back to the early sixties and a USA still filled with racism.
 A "negro", as they said back then, was a great piano master, and he hired an Italian from another class. The moral of this story seems to be: Treat each other with respect. A great goal for all of us.

Decades ago in a meditation book I read about "FIGHT OR FLIGHT" reactions versus "STAY AND PLAY" (a scientifically validated meditation technique makes the mind & body experience a must relaxed state). Such united states have not yet reached certain leaders, and not all members here.
The technically gifted thomasleor is now seeking new test pilots. At first the shown video is about war, but of course it is not a real war. It should be mentioned that this member has acted as an amateur psychiatrist here ("You suffer from"). A nice cup of tea in Veda House in Stockholm might not be enough to elevate his consciousness and morals.

Back to The USSR, oh sorry, back to the USA:

I am not suggesting that Donald Trump is delusional now. But if he really wanted a great wall, maybe he ought to collect all the weapons in the USA. Together they could form a wall.

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 22, 2019, 06:19:41 PM
Dane, firearms are not the problem, people are. Removing firearms doesn't solve the problem. If you did this then people would resort to using other types of weapons. I look at this from different points of view. Let's look at the rape culture spreading throughout the world. This is an attack on women because they are seen as the weaker sex and will offer little resistance to an attack. For self defense a firearm evens the playing field a little.
In SA legal firearm owners are being disarmed, When applying for a firearm licence self defense is not accepted as a valid reason. The majority of firearm related crimes are perpetrated with illegal firearms.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: mr j on February 23, 2019, 01:18:00 AM
and you would never get the bad guys to turn in their guns. Outlaws, gang members etc.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 23, 2019, 08:57:16 AM
and you would never get a certain bragging "good guy" to turn in, turn on, drop out and away from  The 2nd Amendment & the powerful weapon industry. Have you ever compared crime rates in Canada to your crime rates? Canadians might not be better than you, but their access to weapons is more restricted, I believe.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 23, 2019, 09:38:21 AM
Canada unlike my country has an effective police force that can relied upon. In general Canadian citizens respect and abide by the laws of the country; not so in my country. There is just no way you can compare Canada to South Africa.
Where have you seen Police stations being held up and all firearms stolen? An emergency call to the police may result in several hours of waiting if they respond at all.There is political tension and daily unrest in the country that can not be brought under control. Unrest (protest action) always results in destruction in some way or another. Innocent people get caught up in these protests. But South Africa is a unique case in the world.
The United States has had the second amendment as part of their constitution for a very long time and because some liberals want to score political points it is now raised as a deep concern for the safety of citizens. What is the function of the US government? Is it to protect the rights and liberties of US citizens or to deprive citizens of their rights and control them as is the case in socialist countries.
There is "gun control" in the US and it's simple; you screw up and you forfeit your right to own and carry a firearm.
The lack of legal access to weapons places many law abiding citizens in danger as they become "soft targets".
I agree with the right to protect yourself (self defense) and this means having legal access to the same weapons that will possibly be used against you in a crime however motivated.

There are no winners in a discussion like this but restricting peoples freedom and their right to a peaceful existence is not the answer. 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 23, 2019, 11:33:20 AM
There might just be no way you can compare Canada to South Africa. How about comparing Canada to the USA? If my memory serves me well, such comparisons were made decades ago. As far as I remember, cities having much in common were compared to each other. One of the few things they did not have in common: Easy access to weapons - and crime rates.

Of course a certain bragging "good guy" can label common decency, reason and sound conclusions from scientists as "FAKE NEWS". According to him man made climate changes might just be fake news too. It is difficult to reason with such a person hiding himself from what most people consider to be Reality. Behind walls of illusions, almost delusional. Then Again: The pollution out there may reflect the pollution within. 

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 23, 2019, 12:15:37 PM
I think this "bragging good guy" has valid points. Maybe he is a realist who sees through media bias and understands how dangerous the road is that the left are leading the masses down.
I'll take my chances with this bragging good guy, thank you.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Scarface on February 23, 2019, 12:25:53 PM
First, Trump is really not that great of a dealmaker.  1 year ago, Trump asked Congress to come up with a border security deal.  While Congress was debating, Trump was asked several times by reporters would he support permanent protections for dreamers...Trump always responded that he would, as long as the bill also included funding for his wall.  Congress did their job, and delivered a $25 billion border security bill, supported by both parties.  Trump rejected it for no apparent reason, even though it included full funding for his wall. 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 23, 2019, 01:05:03 PM
Please share details Scarface because what you just posted sounds like a CNN report and we all know what that is.....Fake News!

Just think logically, if the funds were approved a year ago how much was for the actual wall? Why did he have to start fighting for a fifth of already approved funds to build the wall?
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: scepticus on February 23, 2019, 02:57:02 PM
Policemen in the  USA carry guns. Policemen in the UK don't  yet more policemen in the USA are killed by guns than UK policemen . Why ?  Mainly  because  they don't get the chance to draw their guns.
People ARE the problem but easier access to guns  exacerbates the problem . The statistics seem to show this .
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Rinad on February 23, 2019, 06:18:35 PM


    for those who allready beleive, no proof will ever be enough guys,

and for those who dont believe ,no proof will ever be sufficient. this truth should be enough to show how that blind trumpeters will stay blind no matter what.
like a man who gets caught in a bed with his mistress from a wife walking in, and tells her ;

    but honey, we are just friends !!! nothing else !  believe me, I love you.

    Rinad
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 23, 2019, 07:11:15 PM
There are armed police units in the UK. Here again you have a very efficient and effective police force. Serious crime is escalating in the UK and across Europe.
You have to look at countries on an individual basis. Each has its own set of issues to deal with.
This gun control issue appears to target President Trump and as usual the disrespect is embedded in some posts. President Trump is wise to keep the 2nd amendment intact. It is not his law, it is a law that he inherited as part of the constitution. His job is to defend the rights of US citizens as prescribed by the constitution. His job is to ensure the security of US citizens and that is why the wall is necessary. He is doing a sterling job.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: scepticus on February 23, 2019, 08:51:53 PM
Micky
There is a big difference between  all police being armed and particular police being armed to combat terrorism.
The statistics for the use of weapons in the UK has not gone up .In 2018 they were pretty stable .
The Constitution of the USA was written MANY years ago when things were unstable. 

It is not about Trump's view on this . This debate has been going on for years .
btwIt is not a Wall -  it is a fence and the American taxpayers are paying for it .
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 24, 2019, 01:37:47 AM
https://youtu.be/a4ei2Zy1Qes

No country is immune from the illegal firearm trade. Things will only get worse in the UK.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Scarface on February 24, 2019, 03:26:50 AM
Please share details Scarface because what you just posted sounds like a CNN report and we all know what that is.....Fake News!

Just think logically, if the funds were approved a year ago how much was for the actual wall? Why did he have to start fighting for a fifth of already approved funds to build the wall?

MickeyP this is true.  Last year, when Republicans controlled the House and Senate, there was bipartisan support for a $25 billion border security deal.  It covered everything...including $8 billion for the wall.  Google it if you're not familiar.  Congress did there job.  But then as the Senate was about to vote, Trump decided he didn't support it.

Now here's the real question:  why would Trump not support this, after he already said he would?  Then he tries to blame Democrats when he's the one that walked away
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 24, 2019, 10:04:39 AM
Sorry Scarface, I had to laugh when I read your reply post above. You couldn't find the facts, could you?

25 billion was the original security package that President Trump wanted and to please the Dems he reduced it to a fifth of that. He has always been for boarder security that includes the wall or whatever you want to call it. Please post a link to your evidence that he rejected the 25 billion he was asking for.

Here is a president who has fulfilled most of his election promises and brought back manufacturing jobs to the USA, something President Obama said was a thing of the past and could not happen.
The current America success story does not go down well with the New World Order and its global agenda. Liberals/Democratic Socialists are trying hard to destroy what President Trump stands for and is doing for the American people.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 24, 2019, 11:49:15 AM
Good guy? Old man with still more lies?? Short term solutions? Guns?  Climate change?Damaging the World and helping his voters?
You don´t have to answer from any echo chamber or whatever.
May you build a latter to the sky.

 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 24, 2019, 02:49:42 PM
A sad day when you are angered by the truth Dane. If climate change doesn't get you the truth will set you free.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Scarface on February 24, 2019, 06:44:40 PM
Sorry Scarface, I had to laugh when I read your reply post above. You couldn't find the facts, could you?

25 billion was the original security package that President Trump wanted and to please the Dems he reduced it to a fifth of that. He has always been for boarder security that includes the wall or whatever you want to call it. Please post a link to your evidence that he rejected the 25 billion he was asking for.


Here's a link https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiq3vzQgNXgAhVqh-AKHVzEDQYQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bloomberg.com%2Fnews%2Farticles%2F2018-12-13%2Fhow-trump-let-his-goal-of-building-a-border-wall-slip-away&psig=AOvVaw1B3scmnpYBnBi5oMWzlizZ&ust=1551119519496780

The fact is the president, on many occasions, said he would support whatever bipartisan deal Congress would pass.  This would've easily passed with the President's support, and it included full funding for his wall.

He also said on many occasions, he would support a path of citizenship for Dreamers if it was included in the border security deal, as long as the deal included a wall.  When the bill was about to cross the finish line Trump decided at the last minute to oppose it.  He is the one playing dirty politics here.  Now the Dems won't give him anything, and I don't blame them
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Scarface on February 24, 2019, 06:51:40 PM

Here is a president who has fulfilled most of his election promises and brought back manufacturing jobs to the USA, something President Obama said was a thing of the past and could not happen.

Trump can't take full credit for the economy boom.  It was already there before he took office.  This may be a surprise to you MickeyP, but Obama's job numbers in his last 2 years in office were slightly better than Trump's first 2 years.  This is a fact, feel free to look up.

Also, in Trump's State of the Union speech he bragged about US oil production being at an all time high...but this is something else he can't really take credit for.  US oil production was at an all time high when Obama was president.

Here's another fun fact  :) .  Republicans accuse Obama of being soft on immigration.  But that is not true.  Did you know that Obama had more illegal immigrants deported than any other President in history?  Its true.

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 25, 2019, 02:48:14 AM
Scareface, you are aware of fake news aren't you? What you present as "facts" are not actual facts.
President Obama had eight years to address the illegal immigration problem and he didn't do a very good job. Catch and release was an open invitation for illegals to enter the USA. This brings your deportation numbers into question. Separating children from families was also wrong.

Fast forward to today; President Trump is heading to Vietnam and the media is already spouting fear and doom. In a few months you will take was has already been written about this summit (that has not happened yet) and use it as fact.

Compare GDP percentages, unemployment rates and so on between the two presidents and it's like day and night.

Please note that I address both Presidents in the same respectful manner.

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Scarface on February 25, 2019, 10:51:54 AM
MickeyP, I usually don't debate Trump supporters because they tend to ignore facts and call it fake news.  Trump has you guys trained  ;D

Research the facts yourself.  What I said is true.  Also, if you want to compare GDP and job numbers, look at Obama's last 2 years in office vs Trumps first years.  It makes no sense to compare it to Obama's first 2 years since he took office during the worst economy since the Great Depression.  He came in office with an economy shedding 700,000 jobs a month, but he turned it around and left office adding millions of jobs.

 https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/646708799/fact-check-who-gets-credit-for-the-booming-u-s-economy (https://www.npr.org/2018/09/12/646708799/fact-check-who-gets-credit-for-the-booming-u-s-economy)

https://www.wnyc.org/story/no-one-thought-barack-obama-would-deport-more-people-any-other-us-president/

https://www.wnyc.org/story/no-one-thought-barack-obama-would-deport-more-people-any-other-us-president/ (https://www.wnyc.org/story/no-one-thought-barack-obama-would-deport-more-people-any-other-us-president/)
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 25, 2019, 04:42:20 PM
"MickeyP, I usually don't debate Trump supporters because they tend to ignore facts and call it fake news.  Trump has you guys trained" Quote from Scareface.

Scareface, your opening statement (quoted) is so typical of liberals. I wonder who is trained and brainwashed.

I think you and others who hate President Trump should heed the advice you gave me. I like the man because he gets the job done. Having said this, you must know that although the president is the top voice he is still bound by his oath of office and by the laws of the country. He relies on his team to govern the country and I think the Republicans outshine the Democrats on every level.
Life hasn't been this good for the Americans for a long time.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Scarface on February 25, 2019, 09:17:51 PM
MickeyP I have nothing against Trump personally.  I actually went to Trump's campaign rally when he was running for President.  My brother in law is a big Trump fan, and he waited all day to save us the good seats.  We were on the 2nd row probably 10 foot away from him.  It was quite an event.  I agree with some of what he says, but I decided against voting for him.

My big concern is the deficit and healthcare.  Obama took office, and the yearly deficit was $1.9 trillion....when he left office he had reduced it to $500 billion.  Now Trump has already doubled that due to tax cuts for the wealthy!  And the worse part is Republicans are blaming the deficits on Social Security and Medicare when it was actually the tax cuts that caused them! 

I really support a single payer system, like Medicare for all.  Before Trump ran for President he even supported this! 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 27, 2019, 04:03:05 PM
https://youtu.be/BarGda1Xf3E

The first 33 minutes of this video will spell out some of the reasons why I detest liberals.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 27, 2019, 05:32:55 PM
And the first part of today´s hearing might reveal some Truth!
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on February 28, 2019, 03:01:30 AM
The Liberals star wittiness....a proven liar! Another show of poor moral standing by the Dems. lol
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on February 28, 2019, 04:29:52 PM
Rinad in reply # 40: "For those who already believe, no proof will ever be enough, guys".
So it might be a waste of time to reason with the usual suspects. I hear that Mr. Trump, according to himself, has just had "A FRIENDLY WALK".  With such disturbed friends: Who needs enemies? lol.

Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MrPerfect. on February 28, 2019, 05:23:56 PM
I really believe that Trump wanted to change things over there...  but. President has no real power. Establishment is simply stronger.
   Money decide everything in money society.  Trump is not the guy who print money enough.  As long as it will be not enough money ( never) , these who print it will make decisions. 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Rinad on March 01, 2019, 03:43:51 PM


   Trump is so busted, sorry Micky. proofs are all documented and cant be denied. your boy is a counterfeit and now there is way too much smoke for it not to be a fire.
time to lay down the kool-aid and drink the cup of humility and truth.
no need to be right above seeking truth. what else could it possibly take to have a Jim Jones follower stop his pursue in worshiping a made man ??? what would it take?
or maybe this is the wrong question, for the right question maybe; is there any proof in existence for someone who all ready believe to change his mind?
Miracles do happen thank God !!!
the mirror is next to you so dont be afraid to look in it, it is a path to the stairway to heaven.

Rinad
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on March 01, 2019, 04:47:54 PM
[video deleted]
Just something for you to chew on.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on March 14, 2019, 10:54:40 AM
Seems like Crooked Hillary and her email saga has boiled to the surface again and it may bring to light the Russian collusion debacle that seems to be plaguing the Dems and not their intended victim. No collusion.... Fake news created by the Dems as an insurance policy in case Trump won the elections; he did so they tried to use it, but wait, they can't use it because it's fake.

Everything in life comes full circle. 
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on March 15, 2019, 07:36:37 AM
Now when all the clowns that you have commissioned
have died in battle or in vain
AND YOU´RE SICK OF ALL THIS REPETION
won´t you come see me , Queen Jane?

                        (Bob Dylan)
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on March 15, 2019, 12:00:13 PM
Bob Dylan for President. He can sing us into the abyss, to a never ending echo chamber. Eventually silence will be a welcomed echo.  ;D
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on March 15, 2019, 12:20:09 PM
Oh yes I am sick of all these repetitions.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on March 15, 2019, 11:30:28 PM
I enjoy the repetitions of time passed, especially when the wheels start falling off.

Liberals will repeat their fake stories and false branding like "there is no crisis on the boarder" for as long as they attract attention and support for the division they want to sow but as soon as the truth is revealed they moan about being held accountable for their words and actions; then repetition becomes bad....lol

The Dems are not looking too pretty at this point in the race.  ;D  TRUMP THAT.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: Dane on March 16, 2019, 08:17:17 AM
Yes, I am sick of your repetitions.

Even the President of the Divided States sometimes must have to stand naked.
Now he has just signed A VETO in order to get his will and his Great Wall.
Sooner or later someone must take something to your Supreme Court.

This is my last post in this debate.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: MickyP on March 16, 2019, 10:41:09 AM
Repetition works both ways Dane.

Repeat a lie and hope it sticks.
Repeat the truth and snowflakes buckle under its pressure.

New developments uncovering the truth will be a serious whipping for the Dems.

Peace out Dane; enjoy the sing and dance as the Dems sell each other out in the unfolding musical chair rush. Fascinating to see the power of truth.
Title: Re: "The Great Wall of China". Short story by Franz Kafka
Post by: UnlikelySam on March 16, 2019, 11:38:46 AM
 :o ??? ::) ;D ...