Author Topic: Using corner bets and positive progression.  (Read 1624 times)

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thomasleor

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2019, 11:07:35 AM »


Sure Joe, UK is one of those few countries in Europe that offeres a good protection of its gamblers, primarely via their National Action Plan upheld by your Gambling Commission and its different surveillance units, amongst one of them being the SBIU unit. Third party organizations helping them, like Ecogra, Verisign and TST are also a guarantee for a good fair game at Brittish establishments.

Still, this high level of anti-corruption and fair play is far worse in the rest of the EU, when it comes to especially RNG games. Recently the National Swedish Gaming Comission revoked the licenses of a dozen Online Casinos  offering games to Swedish citizens due to corruption within their organizations, false bonus offerings and rigged RNGs. The same can be said about countries like Malta and a few others.

This business has a huge yearly turnover , measuring in the hundred of billions. It is easy to understand that it is still a sort of a Klondyke with many new companies popping up, pushing the limits of what is allowed and not.

The mere fact that most gamblers cannot even calculate the expected RTP*  percentage for a given game because the Casino refuses to provide sufficient information about this crucial factor, is just one of many indicators you are not dealing with an honest game or vendor.

RTP = (Amount returned to players) / Total bet amount by players

Here is more info about RTP for those who do not know about it.

https://gamblegenie.com/news/rtp-in-casino-gaming/
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 11:10:51 AM by thomasleor »
 

GIAJJENNO

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #61 on: July 14, 2019, 11:19:28 AM »
Tomasleor,

All ehat qre you said is interesting, but how it looks like in reality? If I play RNG example with 200 unit bankroll, the machine dont let me go, while he not generates for himself from my money 5% (10 units)? What if I after 1 spin win 20 units and close the game?

About offering games for Swedish citizens and these online casinos sou said generats yearly hundred billions: they are Swedich people dummed people? If they lost so much money, why they continue to play on this platform? I learnt after few RNG plays, that it is unfair, and I stopped playing on this, so what is wrong with Swedish people?
 

thomasleor

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #62 on: July 14, 2019, 11:31:53 AM »
Tomasleor,

All ehat qre you said is interesting, but how it looks like in reality? If I play RNG example with 200 unit bankroll, the machine dont let me go, while he not generates for himself from my money 5% (10 units)? What if I after 1 spin win 20 units and close the game?

About offering games for Swedish citizens and these online casinos sou said generats yearly hundred billions: they are Swedich people dummed people? If they lost so much money, why they continue to play on this platform? I learnt after few RNG plays, that it is unfair, and I stopped playing on this, so what is wrong with Swedish people?

The gambling turnover I mentioned is for the EU and the Entire Casino Industry in it. Here Sweden is included. I assume you do understand what a yearly turnover for an industry or single corporation means.

Swedes are not dumb. Gambling addiction (that shortcuts the normal criticial thinking part of a mind) is as common in Sweden as it is in your own country and the rest of Europe. It makes people do the most stupid things they normally wouldnt do under non extreme conditions.

They do such things and even worse when they instead should walk away and find better odds, or less game volatility. Stupidity often leads to desperation, and even worse states of mind. The Gaming industry (its more shady parts) is aware of this and prospers on that particular state of mind. To do else would be contradictive to the nature of the business they ve chosen. It is all strategy, and they have become the masters of it.

Only a very small number of gamblers, call them players, who know good ways to approach the games of chance do good and live from them satisfactory from year to year, with a nice tidy profit and without too many waves affecting anyone around them are the real professionals in the business.

The gaming industry don´t care about them. They are insignificant in size, compared to the gambling junkies they bleed out year out, and year in. hence the number I showed above. One could say that the roles here of getting the good fish, lies not in catching the big whales, but more amassing the small fry, for they are in the millions and provide the numbers the Casinos need to survive and go on forever as long as gambling remains as a primal unquenchable urge in the human mind.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 12:00:31 PM by thomasleor »
 

MickyP

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #63 on: July 14, 2019, 12:09:04 PM »
I agree with you Thomas, there is a big difference between players and gamblers. I see many people in the casinos I visit get trapped in the fast spin vortex of RNG. What makes this attractive as well is the low chip values offered to the players. Same concept as slots; low denomination machines are always busy and make the loudest noise.
All these game are the same as they are set to guarantee the casino a % turnover within a set time/spin frame. This is common knowledge and it is not against random but against computer programs that gamblers wage their bets. This seems rather ludicrous because most RNG specialists on this forum are also very clued up on IT. The only logical reason I can come up with is that they believe Gamblers Fallacy can be overcome and beaten.
 
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Joe

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #64 on: July 14, 2019, 03:43:54 PM »
Thomas, RTP does apply to all games but where I think you're mistaken is assuming it applies to roulette in the same way it applies to slots. Roulette, even if RNG, is not slots because for roulette there are fixed payouts and probabilities. For a single zero wheel the relationship between the payout and probabilities is fixed so that the RTP is set at 97.3%. But with slots what are the probabilities for any particular event? Certainly the player cannot calculate them in advance like he can in roulette, so in a sense the edge is maintained "dynamically" by the casino (as you suggest). But if the casino tried to do this with roulette it would constitute cheating; there is no need for it because the edge is built-in and completely fixed. All they need to do is provide random outcomes and keep the payouts short.

Slots are more complex than roulette. All the casino has to do to create a roulette RNG is simulate 37 numbers each with an equal chance of hitting and then set the payouts for single and group bets.  Slots aren't "simulated" because there is nothing to simulate.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 03:52:01 PM by Joe »
 
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Joe

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #65 on: July 14, 2019, 03:54:24 PM »
This seems rather ludicrous because most RNG specialists on this forum are also very clued up on IT. The only logical reason I can come up with is that they believe Gamblers Fallacy can be overcome and beaten.
Maybe it's because we're clued up on IT that we understand why RTP doesn't work the same way for roulette as it does for slots. I'm sure Third understands this the same way I do.  ;)

And even with slots the way RTP works doesn't imply the casino is cheating. They may adjust the edge and payouts according to how much has been paid out in some period of time, but that doesn't mean any individual player is being cheated; it just means it's a matter of luck if you happen to be playing or not when the payouts occur (or not) in order to maintain the edge.

 
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 03:59:06 PM by Joe »
 

Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #66 on: July 14, 2019, 04:11:39 PM »
I don't have an agenda either way.  I am profitable lifetime on RNG.  That's all I need to know.
 

Joe

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #67 on: July 14, 2019, 04:18:59 PM »
Third, me too. It's not a question of having an agenda though. Whether something is true or not doesn't depend on anyone's agenda.
 

thomasleor

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #68 on: July 14, 2019, 06:20:25 PM »


Joe wrote; "Whether something is true or not doesn't depend on anyone's agenda.".

Riiiight...you seem like a very naive fellow so I will go easy on you.

Let me see how many times that statement has been stretched, distorted and otherwise screwed the human evolution sideways during its history:  Sorry, my calculator lost counting and produced an error message  ;D

But lets choose a few ones just for the fun of it.

Hitler´s many speeches on whose fault the misery of the German people was during pre-war and even throughout the WW2. Goebels, his propaganda minister did his best and succeeded convincing the German people about the valididity of many lies, presented as solid truths. The proof of this having effect was the found in the many millions that died for them. Wasnt the truth bent there to the will of their Fuhrer and the proof of his "truth" convincing teh masses in those who marched voluntarely or forced to their death in the wars that followed ?

Bush assertion in the UN (through powell) that Iraq had chemical weapons and even capacity to nuclear ones, that posed a threat to the region and the world. Started one war on this argument alone which in its turn initiated countless minor conflicts in the area till this day.

I could back in history and of course even forward to our contemporary, but you get my meaning.

One could point to many similarities in the world of science, inventions, philosophy, and so on.To the human mind truth is always in the eyes of the beholder whatever you might be told by others of greater knowledge or authority. It is all a matter of perception and validation.

You could of course claim mathematical truth, but then mathematical truth is importantly tied to the ontology of mathematics.  In particular, a central question is what kinds of objects we commit ourselves to when we endorse the truth of ordinary mathematical sentences, like ‘4 is even’ and ‘There are infinitely many prime numbers.’ and so on


But there are other important philosophical questions about mathematical truth as well.  For instance: Is there any plausible way to maintain that mathematical truths are analytic, i.e., true solely in virtue of meaning?  And given that most ordinary mathematical sentences follow from the axioms of our various mathematical theories (e.g., from sentences like ‘0 is a number’), how can we account for the truth of the axioms?  And how can we account for the objectivity of mathematics...?


Joe wrote:

But if the casino tried to do this with roulette it would constitute cheating; there is no need for it

Yeah, right... Sorry but you are wrong. I could post a list here of an array of European online Casinos that have lost their license due to proof of cheating in various forms. I have my own forum and have so far had two members that lost all their deposits to such Casinos that cheated openly on payouts and later even closed down due to intervention by the authorities.

Trust me I understand what you write because I have been in this business for nearly 30 years now and basically seen all forms of tricks Casinos implement to increase their edge.


There is a reason in the pre-online era Casinos used an array of Enviromental intereference effects upon various gamblers that temporary won large sums of money at their tables. Free drinks, sudden appearance of rude "gamblers", closing of a table, no clocks on the walls etc were a few of those tricks.

Today they use beyond the normal edge of 2,7%, erratic video broadcasting, sudden closing of a betting platform due to technical issues, account problems, non-payout at certain wins (which you have to complain and then maybe be credited in a couple of days, or even delayed payouts during a game etc. Everything is there just to disturb the rythm of the gambler and discourage when the variance curve is in his favor meaning his winnings is way above average expectation.

In the world of Casino ownership, much always want more and the more greedy minded ones among these owners will implement ways to increase profit in any way they believe they can get away with. Even bribes of gaming commissioenrs is always on the table considering the immense amount of money flowing in this business.
« Last Edit: July 14, 2019, 06:49:20 PM by thomasleor »
 

Joe

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #69 on: July 14, 2019, 10:01:44 PM »

Hitler´s many speeches on whose fault the misery of the German people was during pre-war and even throughout the WW2. Goebels, his propaganda minister did his best and succeeded convincing the German people about the valididity of many lies, presented as solid truths. The proof of this having effect was the found in the many millions that died for them. Wasnt the truth bent there to the will of their Fuhrer and the proof of his "truth" convincing teh masses in those who marched voluntarely or forced to their death in the wars that followed ?

Bush assertion in the UN (through powell) that Iraq had chemical weapons and even capacity to nuclear ones, that posed a threat to the region and the world. Started one war on this argument alone which in its turn initiated countless minor conflicts in the area till this day.
Thomas, you seem confused, so I'll go easy on you.  ;D

So because Hitler's lies convinced and persuaded many German people does it follow that his lies were in fact true?
Because Bush convinced many that Iraq did have chemical weapons does it follow that it did?
If a scammer sells a roulette system which they claim wins and many people buy it, does it follow that he does in fact have a winning system?
If I claim that this lump of Pyrite is gold and try to sell it to you, and you believe me, does it follow that it really is gold?
If I have an agenda to convince others that the world is flat, and many people believe me, does it follow that it actually is flat?
I think you get my drift.
Quote
One could point to many similarities in the world of science, inventions, philosophy, and so on.To the human mind truth is always in the eyes of the beholder whatever you might be told by others of greater knowledge or authority. It is all a matter of perception and validation.

No, truth is not always in the eye of the beholder. In fact that's a contradiction. Aristotle said it most clearly and simply :

“To say of what is that it is not, or of what is not that it is, is false, while to say of what is that it is, and of what is not that it is not, is true”. 

What you're advocating is relativism, which is nonsense.

Quote
Joe wrote :

But if the casino tried to do this with roulette it would constitute cheating; there is no need for it

Yeah, right... Sorry but you are wrong. I could post a list here of an array of European online Casinos that have lost their license due to proof of cheating in various forms. I have my own forum and have so far had two members that lost all their deposits to such Casinos that cheated openly on payouts and later even closed down due to intervention by the authorities.

I didn't say that there are no cases of casinos cheating, only that what you claim is standard practice by them is incorrect. If you're going to disagree with me, at least disagree with what I actually said and not what you thought I said or what you would have liked me to say.
 

Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #70 on: Yesterday at 01:34:13 AM »
Leave out one of the Columns and then --

 Leave out one or more of the 6 natural corners  OR .

Leave out of the 6 natural corners O or E-/ H or L /  R or B -

 Job done !

You definitely got me thinking.  After sleeping on it and looking at it fresh, in cases of emergency like this, it actually makes the most sense to play number 2 with support numbers 0,1,3,6,7,9; yes, its only 7 numbers instead of 9 but its OK since the zero is hot (overrepresented by chips).

If I was back in the game (and had the software configured for it), I would definitely continue playing to full profit.  I am adding this to the list for v. 1.122 .  Thanks!
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 01:36:44 AM by Third »
 

GIAJJENNO

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #71 on: Yesterday at 10:02:19 AM »
Yesterday I had a testplay with live dealer. I had man number 11, but I did not just bet on corners, but splits too around number, so it was 9 unit. The 12 was hit around 5 times, the 8 around 4 times, so it gave me some profits, but of course after 10-20 spins I was not in profit, but in the end I went up 60 euro+ with 0,10 euro bet, it is +600 units bomb in the end!
 
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Third

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #72 on: Yesterday at 11:52:06 AM »
Wow, grats!

So the main number pays out 135 units, right?  And I forget how much for the side numbers... >.<

I think that means the bankroll should be 5/9=1.56*5000=7800 units.  Playing conservatively (lowering chips at least by 1/2 frequently), so far the worst drawdown I have seen is under 1600 units, which would be 2500 units if I played the extra splits too...

Was it live online?

 

GIAJJENNO

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #73 on: Yesterday at 12:09:43 PM »
Yes live dealer. But test money, I was curious just, I must test it before I take myself in the system in reality.

We should add the extre splits when we are "close" to the hit. We start with corners, after some spins add extra splits maybe good idea.
 
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Jesper

Re: Using corner bets and positive progression.
« Reply #74 on: Yesterday at 12:28:04 PM »
Adding a split, is to take some more risk, of lose more or win less, I play mostly NOZ, and should then hesitate, if I ever use an Armhole I would think it may be something to try.

We play all different, and I use to be carefully to advice, something is wrong, if not obvious, the game is to a small extent depending on skill anyhow.