### Author Topic: Fractals the Hidden Dimension  (Read 716 times)

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#### Stratege

##### Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« on: June 24, 2019, 03:33:14 PM »

A few days ago, I read a presentation of the fractal theory, BenoĆ®t Mendelbrot, on a roulette forum. One member said that he had studied the author's book "Fractals and Scaling in Finance: Discontinuity, Concentration, Risk," but his conclusion was that he understood too late the shape of the fractal that was coming.

Yesterday, fiben told me that my explanations on the figures (singles / series) make him think of this theory of fractals! It made me think a second time! Reading this presentation on another forum and watching some videos, I quickly realized that my combinatorial model could bring a better visibility to this phenomenon that works with a geometric shape of 3 sides or 3 directions! I had therefore thought of modifying my combinatorial model to adapt it to this theory, using another principle of nature that would allow me to better look at fractal development, if that is possible.

But, yesterday, fiben made me think that my explanation on my "pyramid of effects" (different figures come together and form a general gap) corresponds to a dimension of depth! I believe that if we look at the theory of fractals longitudinally (in the sense of successive spins, one after the other), we will have only a superficial image, with an unpredictable form (between trends, deviations and the rare moments of general equilibrium). The question I asked myself was, how, according to this theory, can we predict a form in a near-unpredictable hazard ?

I very quickly thought that I could use the concept of "deviance-compensation" differently that allows, as with the "heat" to find sequences that take a direction (that take shape) sufficiently predictable. But this discussion with fiben made me think that this theory was going towards the infinitely small, and that it's what happens if we look at the spinning in the geometrical figures that are formed, very obviously on the EC and also on the dozens and columns. There is an interlocking of figures, very easy to observe with the series, and it is probably something that could correspond to the "fractals of hazard" ?

I think players will not be able to find a solution if they only look at this longitudinal way, spins that follow each other. The hidden aspect of a fractal seems to me to be in the internal figures of a sequence of spins, not in its merely chronological progression. This means that figures are formed in one place and "reproduce" a little further as with the principle of the tree (see video).

The chronological aspect suggests that the player would rather seek to predict the end of a shape or a figure (as what the member of this other forum tells). But, presumably, we could rather predict a smaller figure than the one before that was bigger! This idea would be more in the reasoning of the theory of fractals.

I open this topic without being an expert on the issue, so those who want to share their ideas or experiences (in a positive tone) are welcome. I plan tomorrow to go and buy B. Mandelbrot's book, to bring some more useful information.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 03:42:18 PM by Stratege »

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#### fiben7

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2019, 04:07:57 PM »
What a coincidence Stratege 😎 Yes, it is Mandelbrot's book I had in mind when I suggested the fractals equivalent of your approach, together with valuable tools from non-linear dynamics on Long Term Memory of a process.

My first thread had to do with Basics of a Quantitative Strategy in Roulette, simple Trend and Mean Reverting interconnections along with simple risk management rules.

With Fractals, you are now getting straight to the Advanced level Stratege!

Only caveat is that whatever the system and strategy using such higher mathematics reasoning, needs to be calculated and executed live on a wheel within a handful of seconds. And not performed by a software in a computer. Thus, we need to find simplicity in extreme complexity.

We will get there.

Excellent first post and analysis, keep it up!

Best
Fiben7
« Last Edit: June 24, 2019, 04:09:36 PM by fiben7 »

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#### MrPerfect.

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #2 on: June 26, 2019, 06:38:02 AM »
Just out of curiosity. ..
Where you guys see these fractals in roulette?
Wheel is round, rotor is round, ball track is round and ball as well?

#### fiben7

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2019, 07:42:02 AM »
The timeseries of the spin numbers of course

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#### Stratege

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #4 on: June 26, 2019, 11:18:35 AM »
Adapting the theory of fractals to the world of roulette would be a very long study. We can nevertheless study the main concepts to let new ideas come. After spending a few hours reading on the book of B. Mandelbrot, I already have a more specific point of view to share.

Personally, I use in my game the notions of "figures", "cycles", and my interesting gaps have particular "forms" (different differences fit into each other). I now understand that the "theory of fractals" can inspire me with new ideas because my approach to the game is strongly "geometric"! Maybe that also explains that we will find very little topic on fractals, because most players have a rather linear approach to roulette.

Economists know that "not everything is linear or exponential". In the same way, everything is not round! The first thing to do is to be wary of his simplistic beliefs. To make me understand, some players think for example that the wheel and the ball have no memory! Then, it would be useless for them (only) to look for a logic in the distribution of spins. I will simply say that we must not confuse the instrument with the phenomenon. Likewise, thinking that the wheel is circular is not an argument to reject the theory of fractals. Let us specify then that in certain formulas of the probabilities, the notion Pi (3,14) is indispensable !

Players who have a "geometric", or even "financial", approach to roulette, will perhaps more easily understand this "geometric fractals theory". To describe some properties of fractals, Mandelbrot uses quite simple notions. These notions are interesting to better describe our personal approach.

To answer fiben on the necessity, with the theory of fractals, to make many computations between 2 spins, that is not a difficulty according to the "law of the continuous and discontinuous blows [or spins]"! This law is well known but few players use it concretely. It is important to codify his way of spins at the tables, otherwise it is a chaos without name (in the head of the player and then on his notebook) !
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 11:27:38 AM by Stratege »

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#### fiben7

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #5 on: June 26, 2019, 04:44:15 PM »
Excellent stuff again Stratege!

On the concept of "law of the continuous and discontinuous blows [or spins]", could you please elaborate if possible?

Thanks a lot beforehand

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#### Jesper

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #6 on: June 27, 2019, 03:16:05 PM »
Feactals, do you know about it?  It  is clear you have not at least understand it here.  If we use sciene and are charlatans, we do hurt.

#### Stratege

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #7 on: June 27, 2019, 03:54:26 PM »
Adapting the theory of fractals to the world of roulette would be a very long study. We can nevertheless study the main concepts to let new ideas come.

I now understand that the "theory of fractals" can inspire me with new ideas because my approach to the game is strongly "geometric"!

Players who have a "geometric", or even "financial", approach to roulette, will perhaps more easily understand this "geometric fractals theory". To describe some properties of fractals, Mandelbrot uses quite simple notions. These notions are interesting to better describe our personal approach.

Jesper where can you see charlatans in the Philosophy section and in a discussion that talks about understanding notions about fractal theory? If you know more than others, you can bring your knowledge, it would be a positive act. Try to understand that the more we juggle with fundamental notions, the more we will have new ideas. All sciences use the notions of other sciences. Why should the science of roulette ignore B.  Mandelbrot ? I remind you that we are in the Philosophy section and that we have the right to think ! The question here is not to sell anything but the construction of knowledge. So, where do you see charlatans ?
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 04:02:46 PM by Stratege »

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#### Jesper

##### Re: Fractals the Hidden Dimension
« Reply #8 on: June 27, 2019, 05:17:52 PM »
I never said you are not right to think, as I want to have that right. I just said I do not think roulette can be beaten with fractals. I will have that opinoin until I see proven study, and not something just a thought. A thought can be a target for studies, never mind.

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