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Author Topic: The dichotomy of losing  (Read 3260 times)

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Rinad

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2019, 05:21:59 PM »


   when people invest in a business they surely dont expect to make money the first day they open the door.

when you work at a job we dont expect to bring cash at the end of day for most of us.

when we buy stocks, bonds ect... we just wait and live our investments there on a bad day or month.

when we play roulette we just feel like we need to GET PAID THAT DAY.

THAT IS BECAUSE WE SEE IT AS "LOSING" IF CHIPS ARE GONE INSTEAD OF TEMPORARY DEPOSITS.
so I said we need to change our perception greatly or we will lose no matter how great our system is.

I have done that "wrong' way of playing and it is impossible to correct it UNTIL we see it as business. period !
accepting a loss is much better then trying to recover because it has the element of "forgiving ourselves" in it.

trying to recover has to element of "fighting back" to ease the pain. we need to accept pain as a normal in order to be deal with it. the world can seem to crunble on our head if we dont and we are willing to triple our losses just to "feel good "  about ourselves.
most of us feel a sens of "shame' when we lose, like being lost in the forest, but we should not.
even if we made a stupid mistake we dont need to beat ourselves up and hide it as if we were "untouchable".

i respect players who are willing to share their bad fortunes with mistakes. it means they are humans and real people who anderstand life as it is.

we fall into success eventually, and like gladiators, when enough blood has been shade and enough pain has been dealt with, we finaly will win our game to 'freedom", and that means winning !

God bless,
Rinad
 
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Stratege

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2019, 04:21:35 AM »

Astutillo, the sincerity of your words is very respectable. Allow me to give you my opinion. We arn't all here for the money (let alone getting money from other members). There are messages on roulette and its techniques. People come for this and stay here for several other reasons. Money must not be the first objective, otherwise it ruins the mind by immediate desires. Money must be a consequence of our research. Our passion, we must put it in the learning of knowledge on roulette.

In experimental science we speak of "experimenter bias", to explain that if the experimenter already has an opinion, he will find (in spite of himself) results which will confirm his opinion (in practice, the player who wishes to win will always find a progression that will resist on his sample of spins, then he will lose at the casino, blinded by his desire to win). We must rather confirm advantageous phenomena by statistics. Our desire to make money (through play) can become a huge obstacle, it's not "the right spirit". The right mind is to want to beat the roulette statistically. It's a technical challenge, without emotional bias, and everyone is free to want to win or not, playing or not playing.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 04:28:45 AM by Stratege »
 
The following users thanked this post: fiben7

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2019, 07:27:38 AM »
Stratege,

I meant to say that my "ultimate" goal is to make money. My "immediate" goal is to expand my knowledge, improve my approach, share questions doubts and experience and learn from consistent winners.

About money, two sides of the coin exist.
You talked about one side.
The other is that we must educate ourself to the possibility of making money and growing "rich".
This seems wacky and strange. But there are people who in their inner self feel they don't deserve money. They make an actual self-sabotage which prevents them to reach any financial success. The issue is too long for here.
A more money-oriented mind is not a mistake.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 07:51:46 AM by Astutillo »
 
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MrPerfect.

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2019, 07:32:03 PM »
Money is a measurement of success  in the game. If someone do not earn, their activity is just a loss of time. And time is most valuable asset of all.
   In life free time is rarely available,  in order to create it most of the time free available money is needed. Time is money in money driven society,  and here is the place where we live. 
   The only freedom that really matters is to invest your time in what makes you happy or helps you to be happy... so strange to explain these basic things to supposed adult people.
 

scepticus

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2019, 03:01:00 AM »
Astutillo
You missed the point I was making .  Mr Perfect is here TO TAKE MONEY FROM OTHER MEMBERS WHO ARE FOOLISH ENOUGH TO SEEK HIS PAID FOR ADVICE .
Yes , the rest of us want take money FROM THE CASINO not other members .  So who do you think is the cretin.?

Mr Perfect claims that I  do not bet in a real casino without  any evidence  . I could prove otherwise if he had the courage to meet me in a   Grosvenor Casino.  He won't do that because he is too afraid to meet my challenge to him.
Abuse is part of his stock -in -trade ! 
 

Greek

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2019, 09:10:08 PM »
It sickens me to think about losing. The fact that losing is the focus on every roulette player's mind means there are no successful players here. Success is not measured by understanding the dichotomy of losing. Success is measured by the consistency of hitting one's target. Losing is only an irritant that's happens occasionally, 1 in 10 sessions.

So, if the player achieves consistency in winning, meaning hitting their targets, losing is not even a factor to consider. If you are hitting more that losing, then losing is not even worth talking about.

There should be a thread called The Dichotomy of Winning.

Greek
 

scepticus

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #21 on: June 16, 2019, 01:26:05 AM »
Not necessarily , Greek.
When bettting  I am confident of a  profit when  leaving the table.  That is bcause I usually do . Nevertheless  we must consider the possibity of losing . It would be foolish to think that we could always win.
 Those who moan about losing are usually those who use a negative progression and don't consider the probability of PROFIT  - only that of WINNING . Two different things .
Congrats . on winning 9 out of 10 !
 

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #22 on: June 16, 2019, 07:21:12 AM »
It sickens me to think about losing. The fact that losing is the focus on every roulette player's mind means there are no successful players here. Success is not measured by understanding the dichotomy of losing. Success is measured by the consistency of hitting one's target. Losing is only an irritant that's happens occasionally, 1 in 10 sessions.

So, if the player achieves consistency in winning, meaning hitting their targets, losing is not even a factor to consider. If you are hitting more that losing, then losing is not even worth talking about.

There should be a thread called The Dichotomy of Winning.

Greek

You can always start that thread by yourself.

I guess your arguments are too simplicistic.

The ultimate sense of this thread is to understand if - when we face a lost session - is better to accept the loss or implement a recovery attempt.

In my hopes this understanding should come from seasoned winning roulette players or from players who have a deeper understanding of game dynamics and math than myself.

What I have learnt so far is that accepting the lost session is the best option.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2019, 07:23:55 AM by Astutillo »
 

Greek

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #23 on: June 16, 2019, 08:54:20 AM »
Whether a player accepts a loss or implements a recovery attempt, it does not matter. My point is, if the player has to worry about losing and ponder the psychological aspect of the game, the player has no business playing roulette or any form of gambling.

Simplicity is the basis of any great strategy, "Less is more." The only reason someone would contemplate the thought of losing is when the game affects their lives monetarily.

 

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #24 on: June 16, 2019, 11:50:24 AM »
Whether a player accepts a loss or implements a recovery attempt, it does not matter. My point is, if the player has to worry about losing and ponder the psychological aspect of the game, the player has no business playing roulette or any form of gambling.

I totally disagree with all the above.

In a game of negative expection how to manage losses is crucial if the player wish to be a long term winner.
Along with systems and strategies, other features as money management and mindset are of paramount importance.

 

scepticus

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #25 on: June 16, 2019, 11:54:47 AM »
I agree  with you here Greeek . Where I disagreed  was your point that :

" It sickens me to think about losing. The fact that losing is the focus on every roulette player's mind "
Every Player  ? Nope  !

 

Greek

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2019, 03:26:12 PM »
Whether a player accepts a loss or implements a recovery attempt, it does not matter. My point is, if the player has to worry about losing and ponder the psychological aspect of the game, the player has no business playing roulette or any form of gambling.

I totally disagree with all the above.

In a game of negative expection how to manage losses is crucial if the player wish to be a long term winner.
Along with systems and strategies, other features as money management and mindset are of paramount importance.

Negative expectation is a given for most games. The statement about losing is on every one's mind is also a fact. Most experience players already have the skills required to play the game of roulette. In their "tool box" they incorporate systems, strategies, money management, etc. Why does the roulette player need these tools to play roulette? They need these tools to hedge any losses that is inevitable. Therefore, losses is in everyone's mind.

Too often, I see players implement strategies that require a great deal of memorization, data analysis, and execution. VP players, for example, make constant calculations to find the optimum betting choice. Mechanical players, favor a process which require a robotic repetition. System players constantly "tweaking" their approach as random spins offer another "bug" in their approach.

When a player can walk up to any live table, scan the tote board, and place a bet, without the use of tracking cards, computer, or virtual losing, that player has achieved the ultimate betting strategy. You are wondering, does a strategy like that exist? Simplicity is the key to any endeavor, "KISS". Anything else is just "noise."

 There is no reason to think about losing when a player wins more than he loses. This kind of thinking only happens when a player possesses a strategy that consistently wins.
 
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MrPerfect.

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2019, 03:36:31 PM »
Well, Greek... There are things that can be done in roulette and the are these that can not. Few really can go and look and start to play very qweak... but still need to think a bit and know quite a lot. And worst of all... it's not best way to do it, although can be profitable.
   Before making winning monkey jumps l would advise you to verify that board of yours, quite a few post mistakes, especially on the wheels where such a strategy can be implemented as you describe.
   If you really discovered such a thing, make these who discovered it as well little favor ( wouldn't you?), just chut up and tolk about something else...  do not tolk,  but play.
 

Greek

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2019, 04:14:56 PM »
Well, Greek... There are things that can be done in roulette and the are these that can not. Few really can go and look and start to play very qweak... but still need to think a bit and know quite a lot. And worst of all... it's not best way to do it, although can be profitable.
   Before making winning monkey jumps l would advise you to verify that board of yours, quite a few post mistakes, especially on the wheels where such a strategy can be implemented as you describe.
   If you really discovered such a thing, make these who discovered it as well little favor ( wouldn't you?), just chut up and tolk about something else...  do not tolk,  but play.

What a hostile response. I did not discover such a thing. I created it. I have gone through all the traditional approaches that I have described, systems, methods, and even a bit of VB, none of which works consistently. Then, it happened, a light came on. The rest is history. By coming here and telling the roulette world that such an approach does exist, gives hope to those who seek the light at the end of the tunnel. I paid a huge price, a lifetime of study.

"just chut up and tolk about something else...  do not tolk,  but play"

Telling me what to do, the way you have just stated, tells me you have control issues. I know the only thing I can control is how I conduct myself.

Earn it. You too can become a Monkey.
 

Re: The dichotomy of losing
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2019, 05:03:20 PM »
Greek
I liked your post.

However you should admit or consider that there is not only one way or approach to win at roulette (yours, for example).

Anyway if you could elaborate a little bit more about your strategy It would be useful.