Author Topic: Roulette for a living  (Read 2496 times)

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rimsky

Roulette for a living
« on: October 06, 2018, 09:42:41 AM »
I am not a recreational gambler. Always I focused on make bets for a living, or at least to integrate other earnings on a regular basic. Therefore besides of studying, testing and actually playing the games, I try to meet and come face to face with pro gamblers, in order to figure out how they bet and most of all how the approach games and gambling in general. I am specifically focused on roulette, baccarat, 21, and sport betting. I live in a region where dozens of casino are available, and it obviously helps.
Well, I found something interesting in my "research" (which is work-in-progress, of course).
Here in Italy we have a long tradition about roulette. Since the beginning of the XX century, roulette has been deeply analized both in Italy and France. The discover of the HG has been the life mission of many brilliant scholars, and tons of books have been published on the topic. The "system" is gold. Great minds always struggled to find out the one who can "beat" the game, resist the worst spots, and never go broke. Many great minds hang out this forum too, our forum, with the same implicit intent. But actually no HG has been found.
My dedication with pro gamblers I personally know (they are few, but they EXIST) has shown something different.They don't focus on "systems". In fact, they play ridiculously basic roulette. They chart tables, seek trends, and bet accordingly. They give no credit to math, instead they entrust statistics. But most of all, they entrust money management and discipline as key factors to make a living. They aim at 10%-20% of their session bankroll as win goal. They have strong, sound bankrolls which they split in smaller ones or "session bankrolls", but they never are high rollers. I'm still a bit scared in bringing 1000€ to the casino, and honestly even less. But they bring 1000€ or 2000€ and have the guts to use them. Do they win every day, every time? No, they don't. But they never go broke. They have rigid loss limits and know how to handle in bad days: they simply accept them as a unavoidable part of their life. Likewise, I've seen how they manage the good days. Once they reach their win goal they lock up a % of profit, and start playing more aggressively with the remaining. They have the skill to win more on good days than the average gambler, and to lose less on bad days. That's a big, big point.
So, in a nutshell, the whole point is this: they don't focus on "systems", they focus on MM and discipline to generate consistent profits. Would be this the way?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 09:45:18 AM by rimsky »
 
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dobbelsteen

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #1 on: October 06, 2018, 10:16:38 AM »
What is your explanation of money management. MM does not exist. The time you could wager with money on the table is very long past. The only way to develop systems and strategies is based on units. Your bankroll has no influence on the game. Only the profit percentage of the total sum of the bets is important. System players with a strategy can be successful. If you realize a profit up to 2% you are a very good player.
European Roulette with a HE of 2,7%is very superior upon other  chance games.
 
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rimsky

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #2 on: October 06, 2018, 10:56:39 AM »
dobbelsteen,
your words sound like the ultimate truth, but actually they're simply a point of view. We can agree with them or not. I could not disagree more. But who cares? Everyone follows his way. With my post I simply want to express the outcome of my analysis. If this can be a contribution of such an usefulness OK, if not OK.
 

scepticus

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2018, 12:09:10 PM »
Rimsky.Money Management and Discipline are important .That has been said in this forum many times. That said-  Surely your friends don't bet blindly - as you seem to imply -  relying solely on MM ?DobbelWe still use money at live tables in B&M casino.
 

rimsky

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2018, 02:27:05 PM »
They don't bet blindly, but they play very basic systems, often focused on even chances and trends. They don't waste their life in search of HG. They accept losses as part of the game. The average system player can't handle losing sessions. By means of MM and discipline professionals can score profits.
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 02:29:09 PM by rimsky »
 

gizmotron

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2018, 03:14:46 PM »
By means of MM and discipline professionals can score profits.

You are dead on right. They do exactly what you have observed in your first post of this thread. Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it. These players have learned their lessons. It's part of the natural landscape to watch people in stages of learning reject your suggestions. They are part of learning how to deal with fallacies as truth to them. It's a stage. They must get through this or quit. But people that listen to you will go forth and prosper.
 
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alcatraz

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2018, 08:49:16 PM »
Agreed to your opening Post. Thats how i do it as well most of the time.
 

Rinad

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2018, 10:11:51 PM »


Rimsky I totally agree with your opening statement. keeping things simple is how Pros do it.I do know of one who plays EC's only and make a very good living.
[/size]they put Major on major and systems are just a choice.
[/size]the reason that is, is because they have learned this one thing, just like in business.
[/size]it is YOU, and you only that really matters and make a diffenence.
[/size]a great entrepreneur knows that he could sell shoes if he chose to and be successfull.
[/size]what one sales is not as important as how he manages his business. he could get in any business and be successfull because he knows what it takes.
[/size]his product is not what he sales, it is the Model, the process, discipline that really matters.
[/size]here to us roulette players, what many thinks is important is what product we use, or the system we use that will make us profitable. but it is not, even know it is nice to have a good product, (or system), it is how we play it .
[/size]a successfull business man, or roulette player knows that math are not the key. I dont said it does not matter, but it is not the key to success. if I know HOW to sell shoes I will succed, so it is not WHAT i sell that counts as much as HOW I WILL APPROACH THE BUSINESS.
[/size]I believe you can bet on red and black only and be a successful player, walking around tables all day, knowing when to get in, when to get out, and show a profit in a long run.
[/size]great players knows that bankroll, money management,discipline is most important.
[/size]amateurs only think inside the box but never get out and look from a bird's eye view what is really going on.
[/size]I saw th best poker players having the "stuff" we call it. it is not math, for so many have read all the books, like basic strategy in blackjack, but still cant win. they get upset when other successful players dont follow the book, the rules, the math, feeling cheated, but the old wise man who has learned his craft will beat them every time.
[/size]what do they know that others dont?  it is that it is a "waiting game" more then anything. they recognize opportunity when they see one because they have trained themselves to be able to see it when it shows up. the other guys are too busy looking at the cards and the math.
[/size]in roulette the system can be very simple, as simple as playing hot numbers when they repeat.
[/size]one player will do great, the other wont. why ?
[/size]even know they both play the same thing, the one who will succeed is the one who has learned what to do when things go badly and makes the right choices, while the other guy is crying because he is so unlucky he thinks. so here he will chase another system, product to sale, thinking it is the system that dont work.  that is the learning curve.
[/size]anyhow I think discipline, patience to learned not to push your luck will save your bankroll for another day.
[/size]that should be good news for everyone. so looking at your game and yourself will make one grows much better if he is willing to take responsabilities for his mistakes and learn instead of thinking it is only the bad system that takes him to the cleaner, so lets cheer up and grow from glory to glory fellow players.
[/size]great topic,
[/size]Rinad
 
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BlueAngel

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Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2018, 10:18:06 PM »
At Italy there are just 3 year round and 1 seasonal casinos.
One at Saint Vincent de Aosta, approximately 90 km southwards the Turin casino, at Swiss-Italian borders, near Chiasso, is the casino Campione de Italia and 1 more at Venice which operates only on summer and sometimes on cruises.

So where exactly is that location which has so many casinos?!
Suspicious to say the least...

Last but not least, if what you describe are professionals of gambling then I'm a shoe cobbler!
 
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BlueAngel

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Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2018, 10:30:57 PM »

Rimsky I totally agree with your opening statement. keeping things simple is how Pros do it.I do know of one who plays EC's only and make a very good living.
they put Major on major and systems are just a choice.
the reason that is, is because they have learned this one thing, just like in business.
it is YOU, and you only that really matters and make a diffenence.
a great entrepreneur knows that he could sell shoes if he chose to and be successfull.
what one sales is not as important as how he manages his business. he could get in any business and be successfull because he knows what it takes.
his product is not what he sales, it is the Model, the process, discipline that really matters.
here to us roulette players, what many thinks is important is what product we use, or the system we use that will make us profitable. but it is not, even know it is nice to have a good product, (or system), it is how we play it .
a successfull business man, or roulette player knows that math are not the key. I dont said it does not matter, but it is not the key to success. if I know HOW to sell shoes I will succed, so it is not WHAT i sell that counts as much as HOW I WILL APPROACH THE BUSINESS.
I believe you can bet on red and black only and be a successful player, walking around tables all day, knowing when to get in, when to get out, and show a profit in a long run.
great players knows that bankroll, money management,discipline is most important.
amateurs only think inside the box but never get out and look from a bird's eye view what is really going on.
I saw th best poker players having the "stuff" we call it. it is not math, for so many have read all the books, like basic strategy in blackjack, but still cant win. they get upset when other successful players dont follow the book, the rules, the math, feeling cheated, but the old wise man who has learned his craft will beat them every time.
what do they know that others dont?  it is that it is a "waiting game" more then anything. they recognize opportunity when they see one because they have trained themselves to be able to see it when it shows up. the other guys are too busy looking at the cards and the math.
in roulette the system can be very simple, as simple as playing hot numbers when they repeat.
one player will do great, the other wont. why ?
even know they both play the same thing, the one who will succeed is the one who has learned what to do when things go badly and makes the right choices, while the other guy is crying because he is so unlucky he thinks. so here he will chase another system, product to sale, thinking it is the system that dont work.  that is the learning curve.
anyhow I think discipline, patience to learned not to push your luck will save your bankroll for another day.
that should be good news for everyone. so looking at your game and yourself will make one grows much better if he is willing to take responsabilities for his mistakes and learn instead of thinking it is only the bad system that takes him to the cleaner, so lets cheer up and grow from glory to glory fellow players.
great topic,
Rinad

According to your logic the one who sales shoes would be good for selling cars, or selling insurance contracts, this is very wrong.

From the other hand, there are a few "products" that even if there were amateur sellers to handle them they would sell as much as from the experienced sellers, because on the end the people is buying the product, not the person who sells it.

Let me put it this way, If you wanted to buy a pack of cigarettes and there was only 1 shop within a range of 10 km, but you didn't really like the person behind the counter, would that prevent you of buying your cigarettes?

Money don't make decisions, but decisions make money!
 

rimsky

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2018, 07:45:47 AM »
At Italy there are just 3 year round and 1 seasonal casinos.
One at Saint Vincent de Aosta, approximately 90 km southwards the Turin casino, at Swiss-Italian borders, near Chiasso, is the casino Campione de Italia and 1 more at Venice which operates only on summer and sometimes on cruises.

So where exactly is that location which has so many casinos?!
Suspicious to say the least...

Last but not least, if what you describe are professionals of gambling then I'm a shoe cobbler!
I live accross the slovenian border. There are at least 7-8 casino within 30 minutes to my house.
But I'm definitely a liar and an idiot, of course.
Bye bye all.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2018, 08:36:56 AM by rimsky »
 

MickyP

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2018, 10:04:26 AM »
I can relate to the discussion; opening post of this thread.

I would just like to comment on calling people out. Be sure of the facts before you do so.  BlueAngel,  your post about the location of casinos in Italy is informative but the aim of the message was to discredit Rimsky. That's how I understood your detailed post. Let's ask more questions before we assume the worst.

Rimsky, thanks for highlighting a very important "means to an end" for roulette players.
The shift away from HG/100% winning systems is a good shift. No player can avoid losses. It's what you do about the losses or how you manage them that counts.

I spent 7 hours at the casino yesterday. Went in with R1500 (less than my normal R2000) and walked out with R6600 in my wallet. I must have lost at least that amount during that time but because I managed my losses and my game I was able to show a profit.

A good salesman can sell anything but no matter how good he is, he will never have a 100% sales record. Such is life. Such is roulette. The search for perfection with this game is a pipe dream best left to the rookies (sorry for using your word Ken).

Maybe the experienced players can share how they manage their day to day roulette business.

 
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dobbelsteen

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2018, 03:54:40 PM »
Scepticus can you tell me in which casino you can wager with money on the table. I have received an ebook about MM. The bets were done in dollars or pounds. Did you change the dollars in credits or units the description was suitable for all the countries in the world. MM is not a roulette system.
 

scepticus

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2018, 04:26:11 PM »
Sorrry Dobbel  I thought you were referring to chips that can be bought with money. I d0n't think there ever was a casino where you bet only money on  the table.
MM / Money Management is not a betting METHOD but only about how you organise your money at the table .Just as Discipline is not a METHOD but is neccessary for controlling natural impulses at a table-.Or any form of betting .
 
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mr j

Re: Roulette for a living
« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2018, 04:35:27 PM »
You speak of discipline? I said it before.....I used to drive almost four hours (total, both ways), to a B&M.

I had days of hitting my goal in 30 minutes. Out the door, head back home. How many here COULD/WOULD do that?

Few, very very few!!

Ken
 
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