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Author Topic: My apologies to everyone  (Read 2868 times)

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My apologies to everyone
« on: August 06, 2017, 10:20:56 PM »
I want to apologize to everyone for the rigged wheel talk. I have actually found out that in my state, it is legally required to randomize the roulette outcomes. We have live dealer electronic table games, and by law it is required to follow what is called the chi squared test and the gaming board in my state has the potential to shut the game down if it does not conform to the test. It is my hunch that the ETG wheels have made it to the regular table games in the other parts of my casino. I have confirmed, or at least, the people who ive asked, tell me all of the wheels are the same. TCS John Huxley Saturn wheels. So once again, I want to apologize to everyone, because every wheel is made differently, and according to the laws of the land where each casino is located. I just happened to have a state of the art casino built in my town where I was secluded to that specific experience which led me to dig deep into the world of roulette. I still want to play roulette, but knowing what I know now, every time I think about playing, I have a voice in the back of my head which tells me to not play, because of the laws written for my specific area. Thanks for listening to my rants and not calling me a complete crazy person guys you are awesome! Ill be lurking around!
 
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dobbelsteen

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 09:30:34 AM »
All kinds of random number generators can be manipulated within the rules of the gaming authorities.
A manipulated RNG  can creates  a chi worthy random sequence.
Only the source software research can show you the kind of manipulation.
 

Real

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Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 05:09:19 PM »
Heatmap,

What state would that be?

 

heatmap

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 05:13:59 PM »
@real Pennsylvania
 

Real

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Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 05:44:38 PM »
Heatmap,

I've worked Penn about five times in the last few years.  I can walk you through the casinos there and show you which wheels are failing the chi squares.  Gaming law there is likely poorly written or vague if they've included that provision. 
 

heatmap

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 01:55:49 AM »
Yes it's called "integrated live dealer roulette on an etg" or something similar within the laws of PA. it says that 1. The spin of the ball and 2. The rotor speed must randomize. And it's not limited to that meaning they can add anything else that might randomize or help conform to the chi squared test. Like I have said before, everyone I ask at my casino said that the wheels on the table games are the exact same wheels on the live dealer etg. Meaning they all have the randomized bahavior. (In my opionion) At least at my casino.
 

Real

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Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 02:38:08 AM »
Heatmap,

Of course the throw of the ball and wheel speed will vary each spin.  That's common everywhere.
 

heatmap

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 03:41:34 AM »
@real yes i realize that

here is the entire text.

ยง 605a.6. Integrated live Roulette wheels used on fully automated electronic
gaming tables.
(a) A fully automated electronic gaming table with an integrated live Roulette wheel
must randomize the method by which the outcome is determined. This includes, but is not
limited to the speed at which the ball is ejected onto the wheel and the speed at which the wheel
rotates.
(b) A fully automated electronic gaming table with an integrated live Roulette wheel
must be capable of determining if the wheel meets a 95% confidence limit using a standard chisquared
test for goodness of fit. The calculation must be made based on the following criteria:
(1) Ten thousand outcomes have been generated.
(2) A new calculation must be made for each 10,000 subsequent outcomes.
(3) The calculation must consider only the most recent 10,000 outcomes.
(c) A fully automated electronic gaming table with an integrated live Roulette wheel
must be capable of displaying a visual notification, clearable by an attendant, if at any time the
live Roulette wheel has failed the chi-squared test for goodness of fit under subsection (b).
(d) A fully automated electronic gaming table with an integrated live Roulette wheel
must be capable of disabling play in the event that the wheel has failed to meet the 95%
confidence limit for goodness of fit test required under subsection (b) for two consecutive testing
periods. Attendant interaction shall be required before enabling the table for play.
(e) A fully automated electronic gaming table with an integrated live Roulette wheel
must be capable of providing a report that shows the results of the last chi-squared test as well as
the previous 9 chi-squared tests. The report must contain the following:
468
(1) The time and date the test was performed.
(2) The table ID or any comparable identifier.
(3) The number of games used to perform the test.
(4) The outcome of the test.
 

Real

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Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 04:18:36 AM »
The chi square that they're relying on has a flaw in that they're only testing basic number outcomes...unrelated to wheel speeds.  In short, there data is washed out.
 

heatmap

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 02:05:30 PM »
What you said is true because the chi squared test is actually tied to the outcomes of the game aka where the ball will eventually land.
 

Rinad

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2017, 12:19:47 PM »


  Real,

I have a question for you. I like you if you dont mind to tell me in your observations what you see is the biggest difference in ways of how numbers, series are distributed,ect  between a actual wheel and RNG ?
this is not a trick question. I do see a difference, having playing both, and I heard you mention in a other post that you could easily tell just by looking at numbers if they are coming from a wheel or a computer.
someone else had mentioned there is no difference, and am sure many players could be helped by knowing how to spot the difference. thanks.
Rinad

 

dobbelsteen

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2017, 06:55:03 PM »
http://www.patentbuddy.com/Patent/20140015194

live, online and apartus of roulette can be cheated by software. software
.The large software developers have their own patents to follow the players behaviors. Here you can find a lot of patents, how we are cheated.

It is unbelievable.

Here the website of patents for the shuffle devices for cart games.

We think that roulette is a fair random chance game. After reading some patents i do not trust any online roulette.

http://patents.justia.com/patent/6039650
 

Real

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Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2017, 08:41:12 PM »

  Real,

I have a question for you. I like you if you dont mind to tell me in your observations what you see is the biggest difference in ways of how numbers, series are distributed,ect  between a actual wheel and RNG ?
this is not a trick question. I do see a difference, having playing both, and I heard you mention in a other post that you could easily tell just by looking at numbers if they are coming from a wheel or a computer.
someone else had mentioned there is no difference, and am sure many players could be helped by knowing how to spot the difference. thanks.
Rinad


Rinad,

I've been on the road.  I'm back now and I'll show you exactly what it is that you want to see.

Let me do a little reading here so I can see best how to post graphs.  You're going to like them.
 

Real

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Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2017, 08:41:30 PM »
 

Rinad

Re: My apologies to everyone
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2017, 09:44:58 PM »

   REAL,
   you look pretty good for a 104 year old women I have to said. well taking care of,lol
R.