Author Topic: Complex oscillating systems of chaos and random number generation in roulette.  (Read 2967 times)

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    Lorenz attractors in complex systems of chaos

Hello again,

I see that most of you keep hitting that high-speed chase for the perfect table based "system" that can withstand the variance from a chaotic oscillation between dealer and wheel (and believe it or not, the gambler too) and the random-number generation this creates.

I could say that the chance of you and your thinking BEING able to  "finding" such a system is ZERO.  It will simply never happen. On that point, I fully agree with REAL.

The chance, on the other hand, to find a system, or principle,  where you graphically plot the upcoming numbers on a sheet of paper and allow your brain´s trillion synapses (that work on a quantum based wave-particle exchange level, which we also know as the subconscious),  are far greater. At least here the pure intellect found in sheer unobstructed intuition (the intelligence of the subconsciousness) is allowed to process something, you on a daily basis have tried to solve on a pure dialectic level (your thought),  but always failed to keep stable and consistent due to intervening factors known as House Edge and Variance arising from a growing set of randomly generated numbers.

The Roulette is inevitably a system heavily influenced by strange attractors. Those here who apply Visual Ballistics ( and I have seen some) do not understand this inevitable principle of chaotic oscillation [uncertainty principle] within all things and conditions, and are consequently stuck in a painful vacuum of uncertainty that offers temporary wins yet abundant losses resulting in a negative yield on a sufficiently large time scale. I won't even mention the futility found in those who try to find the magic pattern on the roulette table, hoping some sort of bet selection will make them rich, or at least generate some form of stable incomes beyond a good honest job, or business venture.

This process entails everyone on this forum, including the owner of this site himself, who still, after many years of thought invested in the mystery of the roulette, wanders the streets of Athens (and the halls of a few Casinos), wondering if such a system or basis of number prediction in complex chaotic random number generators are even possible?

I know they are. I have not only proven this to myself both on a theoretical level but also on an empirical and financial level, including the feedback data from those I have shared my knowledge and software with.

So some of you here might wonder, what is he talking about and how can I proceed and solving this "mystery" of the roulette on a pure Brick & Mortar level (because you happen to distrust good online casinos)? Well, go to the beginning of this post and start re-reading it...carefully. If you find it, apply it and receive good results - a mere thanks is ok for me.  8)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 12:13:54 PM by thomasleor »


Another one relying on " Intuition "


 Thomasleor, too much water in your post...
    There are no strange atractors there, there who are really vb players know it. There are variables, wich need to be accounted and collected ... those are pretty straightforward,  nothing strange about them.
   Charting always good, but need to use your rationality while looking to the chart. I mean, chart, look, take a desision based on simple math, bet... no need to meditate there.. 
    There is a place to use intuition also. For example , listen to ball throw moment or looking to dealers hand ( if he snaps ball or pushes... ets). If it looks or sounds different, then probably result may be different as well. Separate different spins in their own category,  make a scale of how wird a trial is..  chart apart. 
    People tend to overcomplicate things or oversimplify them..  wheels and conditions are what they are, need to assept reality and behave acordingly. 
    Vb player is not a ninja,  you know? He has to understand what he can beat and when is better to wait or move forward. Some stats understanding helps as well... as collecting the data to figure out what is there to aim for. 
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 12:55:23 PM by MrPerfect. »


You will see what your intuition (subconsciousness) does, when negated, while you hold hard on that 100€ note of piggy savings in that Rhodos Casino, slowly losing it while you apply your sceppy fool proof systems  ;D

Don´t go broke huh, save something for ice cream and a coffee.

Btw, as they have recession in entire Greece now, with ppl starving openly here and there on the streets, you may do a good deed and give them something of your last pennies from the Casino adventure. I hear such deeds brings good karma. You ll need it.  8)


Thomasleor, too much water in your post...
    There are no strange attractors there, there who are really vb players know it. There are variables, wich need to

MrP,  do you even know what strange attractors in chaotic dynamical systems (like roulette) are? Its a field in dynamical mathematics dealing with a numerical value,  a dynamic system tends to evolve towards. It is those factors that contribute to the ever present uncertainty principle in any given system, be it physical or otherwise.

I like your posts but sometimes you tend to oversee the more subtle influences from univariate probability distributions in complex random number generators like roulette in your posts which is ok, but has on a sufficient time trajectory the tendency to become chaotic, hence the variance.

I know skeppy doesn´t understand anything of this, nor why I involved the word intuition as a subconsconsious  additive to normal observation and calculation.

I understand your point of view and commentary perfectly and agree with certain parts of it, but as I said, more factors are involved in the simple spin of a ball around a wheel on a surface with a myriad tiny, tiny tracks including the diamonds and so on. Even the best VBs cannot perfectly, or even close, define such paths based on simple eye-wheel observation. 

As I said above, on a sufficient time line of repeated events the house will get them. In a dynamic system of sheer uncertainty the wheel as a representation of the Variance proves this fact to any gambler that thinks otherwise.

« Last Edit: May 22, 2017, 06:58:57 AM by thomasleor »


 Thomasleor,  lm not a theoretical guy, lm there for money and just focus on what works to achieve it.
   There are obviosly things that change, but most can be adjusted. Roulette wheel ( most of them) are not random number generator, they are physical devices prone to wear with the time... sometimes they become imperfect even before coming to casino floor. And this is exactly what lm looking for.
    Wheels/ situations can and should be modeled to understand how to beat them. There is always some percentage of caos in the model, it's difficult to account for all the factors , but as long as model correspond reality at least for 80 %, it's good to use.
   We can always limit affect of unknown or not accounted for variables with the statistical means...
   I'm not calming 100% understanding, there should be many ways to play this game.
   It's just science starts where measurements are up plied,  how would you measure strange a atractors?   


For that I would need a lot of time and posting space including the ability to write down some nice equations for you which I dont know how Kavs forum handles.

Perhaps you should read this excellent paper on the subject by some very bright MathDs;

Discrete-Time Chaotic-Map Truly Random Number Generators: Design, Implementation, and Variability Analysis of the Zigzag Map by Hamid Nejati, Ahmad Beirami, and Warsame H. Ali


Chaos based True Random generators by Lois Bonilla & Mariano Alvaro


What is the difference between

1) Local Attractor
2) Hot Numbers
3) Bias Numbers

I know the difference and read about this many years ago at Laurance Scott private forum board.
The private forum board does no longer exist, but i save the topic into a word document.
But i am not allow to tell any details about the subject.



There is no such thing, or consequential reality, as "hot" (or cold) numbers in a complex chaotic system like an electrical RNG, or a roulette wheel.

The casinos invented that concept (expression) for dumbos, like yourself, in order to get them betting on what is a mere natural sequence based on the strong and weak law of large numbers.

Had you studied beyond your high school education you would know something about this, but as I have noticed you haven´t and hence your inept comments that are based on continuous guessing, superstition, fear and other nice attractors,  are preparing you for a volatile, shaky experience, at that roulette table on Rhodos. Remember now, hold that 100 eurnote you have managed to save up for a year now, steady and dont put it all on Red  ;D

p.s. I know KAV will  remove this reply to your last comment as he has done with a previous beauty I composed. But until it is, some here will have the great pleasure of reveling in its witty veracity, because, sceppy, you are worth the trouble of being censored.  8)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 03:12:05 PM by thomasleor »


Thomas, thanks for links... it resolve my main problem for today ( what to read while in metro).
   There are some differences between life wheel and RNG. If you add me on Skype,  l could make you a demo of things what you could expect to see on real wheels and their limits. ..
    You are good in creating programms,  probably we could cooperate in some ways.


But Thomas you can not use math and probability to beat a game with negative expectation.
And i can say that without using personal attacks as i am beyond that with more mature solution toward your writing.

I have show that you are a roulette system player who have no clue about physics and visual ballistics at the dealer signature topic.
It does not matter if you use fancy words like Local Attractors when you don't know how they involve with physics.
You use past results to predict future results and does are not connected as the spin is independent.
Random against random.




I dont do skype, but send me a message and I ll give u my email and if you are interested invite you to my VRTech Team of 19 very competent players (engineers, architects, Quants from hedge funds, businessmen, lawyers ) that all love roulette and enjoy my platforms for free with the only promise to make a test at least a couple of times per month as feedback for my continuous R&D.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 03:32:54 PM by thomasleor »


It does not matter if you use fancy words like Local Attractors when you don't know how they involve with physics.


Local attractors..hahaha..Strange attractors, dumbo, strange attractors. There is an immense difference. Now prepare for that 100€ travel.



You have been told not to quote and i don't think of you when using the word Local Attractors as that is how Laruance Scott name them at a special situation using physics.
And again you show that childish writing again.
Try to be more mature.




It´s called witty humor, clown.

Perhaps you can pick up some at the local market somewhere in Rhodos. Greeks are known for their witty humor, especially islanders. Who knows, perhaps when you win 100€ on RED, put it all on black and enjoy the darkness outside the casino as you walk to the hotel destitute and a painful lesson wiser. ;D