Author Topic: The definition of a HG  (Read 3972 times)

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Rinad

The definition of a HG
« on: March 12, 2017, 05:34:50 PM »

can someone tell me the real definition of a "HG" ?
tell me if I get it wrong but from what I read we are not just speaking of a long term winning system, but a system that can sustain a 100.000 spins without crashing hardly right?
not a sytem that would simply win more sessions then losing ones and end up giving you a profit at the end...

I just want to clarify what we are talking about as far as HG.
what is the expectation and requirement that would qualify a system as being a 'HG'.

your definition of it I like to ear, thank you.

BlueAngel

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Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2017, 05:50:56 PM »
That's an excellent point Rinad but the answer is not simple because different minds give different interpretations on the same subject.
If you'd asked me I'd declare HG a method which it might lose from time to time but generates a good and steady profit per maximum 3 sessions, it could be 1 or 2 sessions, that's why I said max 3.
Another question pops out, what is a session?
For someone means 20 spins, for another 200, but in general I think there is no definite number of spins since the stop limits are being determined by money (units).
You could win 1 unit per session and NEVER lose and still you to have LESS profit from a system which LOSSES from time to time!
Do you get me?

kav

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2017, 06:02:50 PM »
Great question!
This is my definition: What is a winning system

There is no infallible system, no 100% guarantee winning strategy . This is impossible. Even the best possible system has just a percentage of success. No 100%.

To put it simply, If 100 people use consistently the system and a significant percentage (over 70%) of players are winners after a long time 5000 + played spins, then this is a VERY good system worth betting your money on.

See also here: Tell me your system and I'll make it lose

« Last Edit: March 12, 2017, 07:17:16 PM by kav »

Rinad

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2017, 06:21:03 PM »

BlueAngel  I totally get what you said. winning is winning and to me as long as I get a "expected profit" within a certain amount of sessions and time, I think of it as a type of HG.

but somehow i get the feeling that many are having the other opinion about what it is. am I right ? and that is okay too but much harder to achieve . some progression according to  Mr Talos, that would have absolutely no stop point exept when you go home after 5 hours or more of play, where a certain (unfound) by most type of progression could take you way beyond a third "standard deviation" ,or maybe somehow can deal with it.
I think it is what some would define a HG.
maybe it is out there somewhere but as you said, winning 1 unit for a very long period is not necessary a HG if you blow all of it in one sitting. many scammers claim to have it but if someone has found it, it would be less likely that he would share it, exept for a few, especially if it is totally mechanical, for that could possibly be the end of roulette, UNLESS it is so hard to apply that it would not matter if it is distributed amoung players, like a "advanced point card in blackjack".
it is a interesting subject because not all see it for what it truly means to have a HG. players as yourself have probably found a way to "beat the house", by simply have winning and losing sessions. and it is what I found to be achievable. but be able to LOSE AND KEEP GOING really takes trust in your system.
I remember the old "hustler movie" with paul Newman when he was told that he got beat because "Minesota fat" had Character, that he was as fresh as one could be after 18 hours of shooting pool, where Newman just did not have it "yet".
Regards.

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BlueAngel

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Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2017, 07:57:00 PM »
Rinad, I've replied you some time ago but Kav removed my post which is the answer to what Kav posted here.
However you may read my reply here: https://www.roulettelife.com/index.php?topic=694.msg20692#new

kav

hg
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2017, 10:56:19 PM »
Quote
@ Jerome & Reyth
If you eventually found something would you share it publicly, here on this thread?
In other words a HG for EVERYONE?!

BA,

What you miss is that even if Reyth or me or jerome or whoever posted a great system (I don't like the term HG) it would for the most part go unexploited by most members.

Like it or not, believe it or not, people read a system, fiddle a little around with it, mostly not following the original rules, but incorporating their own variations, then get bored (or lose a session) and move to the next system. They see it as a past time rather than a desperate search to make money.

I am a firm believer that if the best system ever was posted on a forum, for all to see, the casinos have nothing to fear, because almost none would actually use it, with the religious discipline and the strong capital that a pro player should have.

You see, anyone can write the letters HG, and we read systems every day. The really good system has nothing to differentiate it from the rest in the eyes of a reader. The letters will not glow and there would be no "stamp of approval" from any roulette authority. So a great system is easy to go unnoticed, get lost in the ocean of systems and become yesterday's news in a forum that has a new system posted every day.

I'm a bit cynical, but I believe that's the truth. If someone doesn't plan to sell a system, there is absolutely no reason to not post it freely on a forum. The fear that everyone will run to the casinos and get rich with one's system and the casinos will close is not based on reality.

This thread (Talos_Dump) is a proof that a teaser can create much more interest than any simple and clear description of a good system. And yes there are a few Very good systems posted in this forum already.

Btw, congrats to Reyth for the amazing work he is doing in this topic.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 12:22:50 AM by kav »

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BlueAngel

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Re: hg
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2017, 11:15:19 PM »
Kav, I couldn't agree more with everything you said!
Indirectly but definitely you also declare that not every system has the same bottom line, am I right?

What I've posted on the other thread 'definition of HG', was a proof of the claim I've made yesterday on this thread while speaking with dr Talos.
Even with a ''guaranteed'' 1 unit profit per session, you could win less from a system which losses from time to time.
Also I showed you how one could achieve exactly that, which happens to be my third best winning method.
So you'd better believe when I say that there is even better system than dr Talos Talisman.

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Reyth

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2017, 04:27:12 PM »
A true HG never loses.  A "practical" HG wins so much more than it loses so that overall profit is never in jeopardy.  A winning system is a form (in varying possible dgrees) of a practical HG.

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Jesper

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2017, 05:11:44 PM »
It has been winning system around, it was on a NOZ. They put a time limit and fivefold the min bet, as players using days for recover did it. The same if any found some which will break the bank near for sure, the rules will be adopted.

Still the casino needs our money, one good thing to secure that is to have the rules so it will be winners. Witout winners they do not attract losers.

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Rinad

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2017, 06:07:36 PM »

Kav, I agreed totally that all winning systems still have to be apply and that we, or some of us can get over protective, and we are talking about a game here,and not a cure for cancer.
having said that, the confusion about the term HG, is I believe, not just a winning system.
in other words there is a difference between winning system and a HG.
to Reyth 'point, the Holy Grail IS a very rare wave you would be witness every so many hundreds of years for a surfer.
the ultimate system that just wont lose for 100.000 spins or more. a rare event.

the word itself is of utmost very High unique spiritual matter, and if we use it for a game, then yes, the least we should do is present somewhat of a invincible system that is unique, and not just another winning system.
I think it is what Mr Talos is expressing that he found.
God bless.

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Reyth

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2017, 06:22:44 PM »
Actually Rinad you are correct regarding the spiritual implications of this terminology.  In fact, I at one point considered that I would not even use this terminology because of that.  However, I then realized that nobody actually means the Holy Grail (which itself is a mystical symbol and not an actual thing or The actual Thing) and so I just began using it just like everyone else; simply to mean a perfect system that doesn't lose.

As far as Dr. Talos is concerned, from his personal experiential perspective, yes he has designed a true HG.  His own personal opinion however is that he has an extremely strong practical HG and that even though he knows that losing is possible, he doesn't expect to experience it and even if he did, it wouldn't hardly cause him anything more than a few days of extra work.

In my personal experience from pursuing his principles and examining the resulting statistics from his games, his chances of losing appear to be virtually impossible.  Even the worst variance that I have encountered so far after over 5000 coups would not even put him at 1/2 down in his table bank!  The statstical rarity of the sequences needed to bring him down are at the very greatest!!
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 06:32:08 PM by Reyth »

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Sputnik

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2017, 06:26:49 PM »

The day you stop searching for the HG and accept that loses is part of the game - then you can move to the next level - if you want to take a short cut and learn how to win - then you can define what it means to be ahead and is not the same thing to say i have a win target wish means nothing.

Cheers

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Rinad

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2017, 06:38:14 PM »

very well said Reyth,

the goal was for mr Talos to not lose hope and to Believe there is such thing. and because of the way I am wired and so as some of us, we believe that "a cure" exist. and maybe ,just maybe, most players believe it subconciously as well.
is not that what made all of us jump on the "roulette train" to begin with?
the thought that it can exist brings comfort to many. and the minds and hearts of hundreds put together can somtime create this HG to someone who believes in it. I sure do.
you might of got very close and maybe found a different one then mr Talos. if you can take it to the extreme and double a bankroll 10 times without ever losing or losing once, that is something to be pretty proud of.
I am working on something like a "no bust" system myself. it sure is fun to know it is out there somewhere.
maybe so close we cant see it. our overthinking it can be our worst enemi.

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Reyth

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2017, 06:42:15 PM »
Yes!  I mean it only takes an open mind to immediately see that of course roulette can be beaten!  Its only people that have closed minds that say it cannot and we should not let them dictate to us how roulette works!

However, practical reality should also be consulted here.  Roulette is so difficult to deal with that it feels and looks impossible to beat it!

The truth is that it is not roulette that is difficult to beat (because it is never the HE alone that actually beats us) but random sequences.

« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 06:52:28 PM by Reyth »

Geoffrey

Re: The definition of a HG
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2017, 11:33:12 AM »
The definition of what a HG is , surely is open for interpretation.

I do see it as something very subjective. Reason why is not all roulette players play the game with the same targets and goals.

That is why when you pop this question to 10 different people, the answer will always differ from one another.

It stay profitable over an extensive number of spins
It doesn't produce major drop downs of your bankroll
It doesn't need a high hitratio to stay positive

If all 3 conditions are met, that would be considered a HG in my opinion.

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