Author Topic: Before You Reach Bottom  (Read 12455 times)

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Before You Reach Bottom
« on: December 27, 2016, 09:10:13 PM »
Before You Reach The Bottom

I'd like to start with a very interesting topic about "Problem Gambling." Notice first that I did not say Gambling Addiction. For decades the issue was considered a disorder found in the DSM4, the official book of disorders. But now it is classified as an addiction too in the DSM5. In recent years actual properly conducted experiments have been done to confirm the existence of self cure with regards to Problem Gambling. The definitions for Problem Gambling and Gambling Addiction are quite different. A Problem Gambler can be cured and it has been shown to be true in research that a problem gambler can be cured. But an Addicted Gambler can never be cured. Gambling Addiction treatment is about treating Addiction. It's now classified in the DSM5 so that Addiction Treatment centers can legitimately charge for treatment and services for their counselors, therapists, and Psychologists. When you go that way of treating it, you will always be an addict.

Now if you will always be an addict, then how come psychological research has proven that a Problem Gambler can be cured for life?

In this thread I will show you, with their own science, how the cure is the better choice. You don't need to degrade yourself for the rest of your  life giving why-you-failed testimonies to like minded suckers that are only there to serve as stooges for the potential clients of someone's therapy business interests.

You just need to become aware of what is happening to you every time you walk into a casino to gamble. You might be prepared to carry out a well thought out method or strategy on exactly what to do and when to do it. You really should not waste your time in a casino before you have a winning method anyway. But let's assume for the sake of argument that you do have a plan. The question is are you prepared to carry out that plan.

I don't care who you are. Everyone must deal with the chemical changes that will occur as they start to sit down and play. Now you can affix anything you want to how you go about starting how or where you actually gamble. But at some point everyone must deal with these changes that will happen. You have a logic center to your brain. Most of us experienced players come to the casino rooted in our logic centers with actual strategies and methods already mapped out and planned. Having said that, the playing itself can cause chemical changes that send Adrenalin and Endorphin messages to the pleasure center of our brains. And this is where the war is won or lost. You have it in you to cure yourself right on the spot and right now when this chemical change occurs.

You must force yourself back into the logic center of your brain. The pleasure center turns off your defense against losing and caring that you are losing. When that happens you stop executing your plan.

Have you ever heard of Pavlov's dog? This is also known as Classical Conditioning. Some people are so screwed up by these chemical changes that their brains begin to shift out of the logic center as they anticipate gambling on the drive over to the casino.

So my recommendation is to come prepared to win with a proven plan and to deliberately turn off the pleasure center of your brain. Find a way to stay or get back into the logic center where your plan can be properly executed.

You don't have to hit the very bottom where you are gambling with money that you need or have other plans for.



The following users thanked this post: kav, mr j, Reyth


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2017, 06:20:41 PM »
The important part of the research is in how the brain has different parts for different purposes. A pill will not help you with that. If you have a tried and proven advantage, say it's counting cards, you will still have your logic center lose control as the pleasure center takes over. Now anyone that can force themselves to concentrate with the logical decision making process can send the brain back into the logic center. This is what happens when the pleasure center is allowed to take over. You no longer have any concerns about losing. This chemical reaction to the anticipation of gambling is chemical but what it does in your brain is to cause the brain to go into the non-thinking zone. You can only go back into the logic center if you have a very powerful method and strategy to follow. You have to be like a trained pilot that can ignore what they feel and fly the plane by what they see in the instruments. I know this from experience. I'm a pilot and a self controlled gambler.
Here is what it is like. You got killed at the casino because you were going to play the red/black only, flat betting. You got killed because you didn't stick just to red/black flat betting. So that was yesterday. You sat there the rest of the day at home and the next morning kicking yourself for not sticking to the plan. You tell yourself if you had only stuck to the plan that you would have not lost so much. Your logic center sees what you did wrong. You could have only lost 10% if you only done partially bad sticking to blacks/reds, but you went off the plan and started chasing hot streaks that didn't last.

So now it's the next day and you know what you did wrong. So you decide to go back to the casino because you know what you did wrong. On the way there you start to have anxious feelings about playing again. Before you are even there the pleasure center takes over. You can barely keep your mind on sticking with the red/blacks and flat betting. So you buy in, and start out just playing the red/blacks correctly. Then for some reason you go back to making the exact same mistake that you made the day before. You are off chasing hot streaks that sometimes work, and increase the chemicals that shift brain function even more.

My first flight instructor told me what almost all flight instructors tell their students. "No matter what happens, always fly the plane."

You must have a trained skill to stick to. You must execute that skill no matter what happens. The greatest distraction in the casino is inside your own head. The chemicals are not the excuse to fail. It's you not keeping your head that causes the trouble.

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Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2017, 06:22:19 PM »

It looks like there is plenty of testing for increasing endorphins, adrenaline, serotonin, and dopamine. I know that if there were a medication to inhibit this quartet of stimulants, it would be in testing real problem gamblers by now. It's hard to believe that the FDA would approve a drug that would diminish the tax based revenue that casinos provide to various states and federal government out of the goodness of their hearts. We get f***ed by the government about every 20 years and have to pick up the tab for inept or even deliberate manipulation of financial markets. First there were the evil lobbyist that handed us the Saving and Loans scandal. Then there was the Junk Bond scandal. Just in the past ten years there has been the manipulation and upgrading of bundled mortgages by the ratings infrastructure that led to sub prime loans and banking failures. I wonder what is next? I wonder what kind of endorphins, adrenaline, serotonin, and dopamine our politicians are smoking?

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Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2017, 06:24:27 PM »

"Problematic gambling is thought to be influenced by neurobiological mechanisms. However, the neuroendocrine response to gambling is largely unknown. Therefore, the effect of casino gambling on the sympathoadrenal system, the HPA-axis, and pituitary hormones were analyzed.

Fourteen male problem gamblers and 15 non-problem gamblers were examined in a balanced cross-over design. In the experimental session, participants played blackjack in a casino wagering their own money. During the control session, subjects played cards for accumulation of points. Heart rate and endocrine measures were recorded at baseline, at 30, 60 and 90 min during gambling/card playing, and after the game.

Heart rate and norepinephrine levels increased with the onset of blackjack in both groups, with problem gamblers showing significantly higher levels across the entire gambling session. In addition, dopamine levels were significantly higher in problem gamblers during casino gambling compared to non-problem gamblers. Cortisol levels were transiently increased with the onset of blackjack in both groups.

Casino gambling as a “real life” situation induces activation of the HPA-axis and the sympathoadrenergic system, with significantly more pronounced changes in problem gamblers. These findings may contribute to a better understanding of neuroendocrine disturbances in problem gambling."


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2017, 06:30:22 PM »
This is so true.  I don't see it as chemicals though.  I see it is a process of transacting in money.  Roulette is a very powerful medium for transacting in money.  The more money involved the greater import the transactions have.

I think the problem is that the import of what we are doing affects us on a SUBCONSCIOUS level (the more money, the stronger the effect) and if we don't respond by consciously implementing the required tasks, then our emotions are in control and not our true selves. 

For me, its more a reality of life than chemicals and just like any job, we have to consciously focus our mind and emotions to make sure the work is accomplished without error.

Its a conscious decision: "I am focusing on this progression and I am not allowing myself to be distracted.  I am staying in this zone and paying attention to what is happening with the wheel.  Follow, follow..." etc.

My job is to execute my Player's Edge by implementing my system perfectly.

I am sure there are chemicals involved but that is no different than any other important activity in life.

You know I was just thinking more about this and I think there is an issue with the terminology the casinos use to describe gambling.  They call it "gaming" and they insist that their clients should "have fun".

I am pretty sure this is to engender a "care free" gambling style where the ideal client is actually OK with losing money as long as they have fun and although the problem gambler is not OK with losing money on a conscious level, they are definitely enthralled with the money transaction and the feelings associated with that activity, so that subconsciously they don't actually care if they are losing or what the money they are using means in their life.

I will resist the urge to once again post the Al Pacino "decimal point" video... XD
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 07:06:51 PM by Reyth »
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Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2017, 08:24:16 PM »
I can see that having a plan and sticking to it is a must. That plan must have a consideration for realistic expectations too. Now part of the problem is not having a plan to keep the winnings when you get them in the first place. In the second place, if you can't stick to your plan and don't mind losing when you don't stick to it, then you're a doomed once your mouth starts watering. Greed, or I should say that money and then more money can pull you right out of your logical thinking and into a non thinking zone too. People that fail to plan, plan to fail.


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2017, 08:44:48 PM »
There is a sense of power in being able to make so much money so quickly and without discipline we are simply swept away with emotional thinking and actions.

You know, stock traders have the same issues too.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2017, 09:03:06 PM by Reyth »


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2017, 09:32:39 PM »
The experts in the headshrinker world try to say the same thing about extreme sport athletes. But they are so full of caca. I'm an old time extreme poly athlete. I know what the brainless tendencies are for gambling. I can assure you that there is nothing in the mountain climbing world that is anything less than totally focused. You could gamble like a monster if you knew that if you go off your plan you would be killed. I increased all my capabilities one very careful step at a time. It took me decades before I tried unroped extreme soloing. It took me ten years to learn how to ski 70 degree slopes. Everything was based on acquired capabilities verified and executed as assessed limitations and realistic expectations. The headshrinkers think that all is needed is guts and an addiction to an Adrenalin rush. It's just too bad how transparent some so called educated people recruit their clients.


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2017, 10:02:22 PM »
Woah.  You did unroped 5.0 solo climbing?  YIKES!

But good point, in a certain way, that's exactly what we are doing on the felt.


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2017, 10:32:48 PM »
I soloed a 5.11a pillar as my very last solo climb of my life. It became blank granite friction for the last 20 feet. That was with 1988 footwear and the most difficult climb in the world at the time was a 5.12. But my favorite was just a class 4. I free soloed the Mountaineers Route on the face of Mt Whitney. There's a surprise at the top of the Couloir. It's a very airy pillar of broken granite stacked up for about 150 ft. If you fall you fall for 3,000 ft into a lateral moraine.

But I have four things that blow all that off the stage. I have the four greatest rides of my life. I flew an airplane down the face of Half Dome in Yosemite 4 to 10 feet away from the North Face. I ran the men's downhill at the World Cup back in 1976, the drought year. I SCUBA dived down to 205 ft deep in Lake Tahoe in February with one 3,000 pound tank. That was a very dangerous mountain dive. But my all time favorite was a monster day under the Golden Gate Bridge in hellish conditions on a sinker windsurf board. The waves were 24 ft high, the wind was 35 miles per hour, and the current going out against the waves and wind was 7 miles per hour. Every two seconds I did a fifty foot jump going around 30 miles per hour. I mean like ten jumps in a row before the waves diminished at the sides. That single spot in those conditions is the greatest most fulfilling experience of anything I mastered. I've been looking for video of other people doing it for years and can't find a thing to look at. But that is hands down the very best thrill.


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2017, 10:44:11 PM »
You sir are very fortunate to be alive.  I have been in 10 foot waves with an unbeatable undertow and the absolute terror is overwhelming (but then I was only 17 with a boogie board).

I had no idea the waves got that big at the Golden Gate bridge.  MY GOSH.

You had one tank?  What about narcosis people seem to die from that so frequently I have seen so many stories it seems...

I love caving and underwater caving would be so amazing but its too dangerous and of course expensive to boot.

You seen this no tank guy Nery?
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 09:32:12 AM by kav »


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2017, 11:26:28 PM »
I got a light case of NN. It feels like needles pricking at your skin all over your body. I drove from Sand Harbor where we dove to South Lake Tahoe and hot filled our tanks at a sport shop, the only air at the time in Tahoe. We went back and took a full hour at 20 and 10 feet deep to recover. All was good after that.

I missed one of the great rides. I opened the Wagon Wheel face at Kirkwood Meadows back in 1995. There was 104 inches of fresh real bottomless dry powder on that day. The face is very steep for a ski resort. I couldn't believe the chair was open. Nobody had the guts to go up there, not even the ski patrol. They don't have double black diamonds for the sign. They have double skull and cross bones with the warning experts only. When I skied it only my head was visible. I was in powder all the way up to the bottom of my chin. I skied the face for four hours before another skier came up to try it. The two of us skied out the face all day without anyone bothering us. It was shear death defying. If you lost a ski or fell you could not get up and a rescue party could never search for you even though they could get near you. You had to keep moving in order to stay above the surface. I forced my skies down so that my head went under just to see if I could go down the face like a mole. I went down about 100 feet with my entire body below the surface of the snow.

I looked for real bottomless powder skiing on youtube and that was phony too. It was only knee deep powder. I'll keep looking. My extensive years of back country mountaineering skiing was what made it allowable to do this. It never avalanched. It was a 100 year event to have that snow pile up dry like that.


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2017, 11:38:25 PM »
Wow ya I had forgotten about extreme skiing.  I saw a doc once and these guys didn't use chair lifts, they used helicopters. 

They would have debates about the temperature and the chances of avalanche...


Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2017, 12:22:13 AM »
That's funny. I started one year after that guy skied down the Grand Tetons. I was too poor to ever get a helicopter ride. I climbed the mountains alone and skied down them all alone. There was no other person at Tahoe that I ever heard about. I asked around. We invented our own equipment. There was no such thing as sponsored extreme sports back then. It was for the sheer joy of doing what seemed impossible. Now, everyone is a pro extreme this or that. Everything is filmed. Everything is sponsored.

There's a movie documentary about the pioneers of Big Mountain Skiing, "Steep." There was this guy in Chamonix France, one of pioneers, who made it all look real easy. That is exactly how I taught myself to do it. There are a few tricks that you never see these days. They all bail out and call it ski extreme. Anyone can lose it on a very steep face. The trick is to look like it's just a day at the beach. All I see is drop and plop and WowWee.

Here is a link to the whole story:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 12:26:48 AM by gizmotron »
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Re: Before You Reach Bottom
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2017, 01:57:04 AM »
So the title of this thread is "Before You Reach Bottom." So whatever you do, don't hit anything before you reach the bottom. What I want to know is what the heck are you doing Reyth that gives you the concept of becoming excellent at something special? You've said enough to let us know that you have extra terrestrial skills.